{"id":84784,"date":"2023-04-11T03:45:00","date_gmt":"2023-04-11T10:45:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/honeybook-blog.site.strattic.io\/?p=84784"},"modified":"2025-04-17T09:51:46","modified_gmt":"2025-04-17T16:51:46","slug":"embracing-your-inner-ceo-ellen-yin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/embracing-your-inner-ceo-ellen-yin","title":{"rendered":"Becoming a business owner and embracing your inner CEO with Ellen Yin"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2000\" height=\"1548\" src=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-84785\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover.jpg 2000w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover-300x232.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover-1024x793.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover-768x594.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/1-Embracing-Your-Inner-CEO-with-Ellen-Yin-Cover-1536x1189.jpg 1536w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What is it like to go from a cubicle to becoming a business owner and the CEO of your own company? Five years ago, Ellen Yin quit her corporate marketing job without a backup plan. She then turned a single $300 freelance contract as a marketing consultant into a seven-figure business.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In this conversation, Ellen is sharing what that journey looked like for her, how some independent business owners go into entrepreneurship without realizing they want to run a business in the first place, and how you can begin embracing your inner CEO. Plus, we\u2019re discussing the science of asking questions and the one mistake you might be making when you close out your emails!<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The <\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/podcast.honeybook.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Independent Business podcast<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> is powered by<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/honeybook.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">HoneyBook<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">, the all-in-one platform for anyone with clients. Book clients, manage projects, get paid faster, and have business flow your way with HoneyBook. Use the code PODCAST to get 20% off your first year as a new member.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/embed.acast.com\/642c3f15a5f38c0011f3c907\/64307ba43cf4fc0011ef1a36?accentColor=ffffff&#038;bgColor=000000&#038;secondaryColor=ffffff&#038;font-family=Metrophobic&#038;font-src=https%3A%2F%2Ffonts.googleapis.com%2Fcss%3Ffamily%3DMetrophobic\" frameBorder=\"0\" width=\"100%\" height=\"110px\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"section\" data-elementor-id=\"84892\" class=\"elementor elementor-84892\" data-elementor-post-type=\"elementor_library\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-91ebf4f e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-parent\" data-id=\"91ebf4f\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1b1456a e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-child\" data-id=\"1b1456a\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-33eedbe elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"33eedbe\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Follow the Unbreakable Business podcast<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-3411d8e e-flex e-con-boxed e-con e-child\" data-id=\"3411d8e\" data-element_type=\"container\" data-e-type=\"container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"e-con-inner\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1cccfd8 elementor-widget__width-initial elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"1cccfd8\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/6HEABHsny0ABIk6agrl9hA\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-icon\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"e-font-icon-svg e-fab-spotify\" viewBox=\"0 0 496 512\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\"><path d=\"M248 8C111.1 8 0 119.1 0 256s111.1 248 248 248 248-111.1 248-248S384.9 8 248 8zm100.7 364.9c-4.2 0-6.8-1.3-10.7-3.6-62.4-37.6-135-39.2-206.7-24.5-3.9 1-9 2.6-11.9 2.6-9.7 0-15.8-7.7-15.8-15.8 0-10.3 6.1-15.2 13.6-16.8 81.9-18.1 165.6-16.5 237 26.2 6.1 3.9 9.7 7.4 9.7 16.5s-7.1 15.4-15.2 15.4zm26.9-65.6c-5.2 0-8.7-2.3-12.3-4.2-62.5-37-155.7-51.9-238.6-29.4-4.8 1.3-7.4 2.6-11.9 2.6-10.7 0-19.4-8.7-19.4-19.4s5.2-17.8 15.5-20.7c27.8-7.8 56.2-13.6 97.8-13.6 64.9 0 127.6 16.1 177 45.5 8.1 4.8 11.3 11 11.3 19.7-.1 10.8-8.5 19.5-19.4 19.5zm31-76.2c-5.2 0-8.4-1.3-12.9-3.9-71.2-42.5-198.5-52.7-280.9-29.7-3.6 1-8.1 2.6-12.9 2.6-13.2 0-23.3-10.3-23.3-23.6 0-13.6 8.4-21.3 17.4-23.9 35.2-10.3 74.6-15.2 117.5-15.2 73 0 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29.9866C15.3938 30.0147 15.5547 29.9957 15.7003 29.932C15.846 29.8683 15.97 29.7626 16.0571 29.6281C16.1442 29.4936 16.1904 29.3362 16.1902 29.1753V21.7944C16.1902 19.6587 17.8956 17.9288 20.0011 17.9243C21.0118 17.9261 21.9806 18.3346 22.6946 19.0602C23.4087 19.7858 23.8098 20.7692 23.8098 21.7944V29.1753C23.8098 29.8983 24.6625 30.2687 25.1785 29.7741L35.0566 20.2996C37.5819 17.7159 40 14.9236 40 11.0513C40.0003 9.59998 39.7187 8.16278 39.1713 6.82183C38.6239 5.48089 37.8214 4.26248 36.8096 3.23621C35.7979 2.20994 34.5968 1.39592 33.2748 0.84064C31.9529 0.285361 30.536 -0.000291128 29.1052 2.22647e-07Z\" fill=\"white\"><\/path><\/g><defs><clipPath id=\"clip0_101_2\"><rect width=\"40\" height=\"30\" fill=\"white\"><\/rect><\/clipPath><\/defs><\/svg>\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">iHeart Radio<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-962fa2c elementor-widget__width-initial elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"962fa2c\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-e-type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@UnbreakableBusinesspodcast\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-icon\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"e-font-icon-svg e-fab-youtube\" viewBox=\"0 0 576 512\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\"><path d=\"M549.655 124.083c-6.281-23.65-24.787-42.276-48.284-48.597C458.781 64 288 64 288 64S117.22 64 74.629 75.486c-23.497 6.322-42.003 24.947-48.284 48.597-11.412 42.867-11.412 132.305-11.412 132.305s0 89.438 11.412 132.305c6.281 23.65 24.787 41.5 48.284 47.821C117.22 448 288 448 288 448s170.78 0 213.371-11.486c23.497-6.321 42.003-24.171 48.284-47.821 11.412-42.867 11.412-132.305 11.412-132.305s0-89.438-11.412-132.305zm-317.51 213.508V175.185l142.739 81.205-142.739 81.201z\"><\/path><\/svg>\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">YouTube<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">From corporate work to independent business owner&nbsp;<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Did you know that <a href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/independent-business-statistics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">72% of independent business owners<\/a> did not always intend to be business owners? Many of them also became accidental entrepreneurs, with <a href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/independent-business-statistics\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">43% of them starting as a side hustle<\/a>. Ellen Yin falls into this category, as she did not expect to become a CEO.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">After a series of steps in curiosity, Ellen found herself intrigued by concepts that sparked something in her. Within ten months of being in her first corporate job, Ellen knew that it wasn\u2019t the place for her. She quit her job without a plan, expecting to look for another role that was a better fit for her at a different company. This was a few days before Christmas in 2017.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rather than immediately jumping into the application process, she took some time off for the holidays. Shortly after, a colleague reached out asking if she could help build a social media presence for their family business. That $300 project was the launch of Ellen\u2019s business. It opened her eyes to this opportunity that she has a skill set that she can monetize outside of a traditional job structure.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div id='lightbox-inline-form-f7d37f1b-4a8e-4762-b0ea-9424de78c464'><\/div><div id='variation-inline-form-var-06ce7aab-c2b7-42fb-9ae9-4a8b3ecc2673'><\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Challenges in becoming a CEO<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Stepping into the role of a CEO comes with a lot of challenges. Ellen attributes some of her success to her naivet\u00e9. She didn\u2019t have many fears, because she didn\u2019t have expectations. She simply saw challenges as learning curves:<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The change in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/how-to-file-self-employed-taxes\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">tax preparation<\/a><\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hiring contractors and employees<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Embracing the role of CEO<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Being an independent business owner isn\u2019t all sunshine and rainbows\u2014it\u2019s hard work and challenging in so many ways. Ellen found that she was untrained and unprepared for launching her business, yet she has learned how to embrace her inner CEO.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The science of asking questions<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As a CEO, are you asking enough questions? Whether that is to a colleague, a potential client, or even a business partnership, you could be missing out on opportunities by not asking the right questions. Let\u2019s dive into the science of asking questions as an independent business owner.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In 1993, social scientists <a href=\"https:\/\/www.jstor.org\/stable\/2489199?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Vicki Morwitz, Eric Johnson, and David Schmittlein<\/a> conducted a study with more than 40,000 participants that revealed that simply asking someone, if people were going to purchase a new car within the next six months, increased the likelihood they would purchase a car by 35%. Just asking them the question.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In an earlier study, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.researchgate.net\/publication\/232579629_Increasing_Voting_Behavior_by_Asking_People_If_They_Expect_to_Vote\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">published in the Journal of Applied Psychology<\/a>, citizens were asked if they were going to vote in an upcoming election. Just by asking them if they&#8217;re going to vote, their likelihood to vote increased by 25%.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Questions are incredibly powerful as you&#8217;re moving into an independent business CEO mindset. Ellen has found this science to be a confirming strategy for closing deals in business.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Create conversions by asking intentional and direct questions<\/span><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">So many of us attempt to be polite over email, which can ultimately be detrimental to our success. We end emails with phrases like \u201cLet me know if you\u2019re interested,\u201d giving our contacts permission to take a mental raincheck. A statement like this does not invite a conversation.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As humans, we are primed to respond to questions while statements can go ignored. Consider how you keep the loop open in a conversation by asking questions. When you do that, the recipient of the question will want to close that loop by answering the question.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Rather than ending your email with a passive statement, consider being a guide for the recipient. How can you make it easy for someone to respond? When you place the responsibility on someone else, it\u2019s easy for them to put it off (our lives are all chaotic and busy). In asking a direct question, it makes it easy for them to respond to that one question. Instead of stating, \u201cLet me know if you\u2019re interested,\u201d here are a few questions you can ask:<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Would you like to move forward with this?&nbsp;<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Is this a good fit for you?&nbsp;<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Which of these options do you prefer?&nbsp;<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">What time would you like to meet all of these?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Each of these are specific questions that have a direct intent, which allows an easy answer of yes or no. Helping someone make a decision or facilitating a decision is one of the most powerful moves you can make in business, especially when it comes to conversion and sales.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-stackable-image stk-block-image stk-block stk-5a341a0\" data-block-id=\"5a341a0\"><figure><span class=\"stk-img-wrapper stk-image--shape-stretch\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"stk-img wp-image-84981\" src=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin.png\" width=\"2200\" height=\"1237\" alt=\"Ellen Yin\" srcset=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin.png 2200w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin-300x169.png 300w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin-1024x576.png 1024w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin-768x432.png 768w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin-1536x864.png 1536w, https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Yin-2048x1152.png 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 2200px) 100vw, 2200px\" \/><\/span><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Innovative marketing for CEOs and independent business owners<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Curiosity is one of the most underrated strengths that you can have as an entrepreneur. When you get curious and ask questions about concepts, businesses, and strategies, it opens the door to innovation. Those questions to others lead to the key to creativity: collaboration.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Whether you\u2019re collaborating with like-minded independent business owners, building partnerships, or sparking brand deals, getting curious about another brand and discussing ideas can lift the pressures and stress we often face in our marketing efforts. These conversations of curiosity allow for more innovative marketing in your business.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Business growth through leading a team as a CEO<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">At the onset of becoming a business owner, you may not consider the potential growth that can allow you to build a team. Sometimes, <a class=\"wpil_keyword_link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/business-growth\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\" title=\"business growth\" data-wpil-keyword-link=\"linked\">business growth<\/a> provides you with the opportunity to hire contractors and employees, allowing you to lead a team and embrace your inner CEO.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ellen ran her first year in business independently. By 2019, she hired a part-time contractor to support her boutique marketing agency. It wasn\u2019t long before that contractor became her first full-time employee. Now, that employee has built her own business, while still playing a part in Ellen\u2019s media company\u2014that shows the privilege that independent business owners have to not do things the traditional way. You can adapt to the goals, dreams, and lives of the people who work for you or with you as their ambitions change.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Currently, Ellen has <a href=\"https:\/\/www.honeybook.com\/blog\/grow-your-team-successfully\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">two full-time employees<\/a>, along with a few amazing contractors that she leads in her company. The biggest lesson that she has learned in leadership and hiring is rather than asking the how and what, start asking about the who:<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who would be the best fit for this?<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Who could lead this project?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In addition to learning how to retrain your brain to think this way, CEOs have to learn to allow people to make mistakes. In the same way that you had to figure things out on your own, consider simply being there as a guide or leader for your employees.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Even Google did a study on what makes an effective team that reflects this concept. It wasn&#8217;t intelligence that created incredible teams, it was psychological safety. Teams want to feel safe to make mistakes, voice their opinions, show up as themselves, and be accepted.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n        <lite-youtube class=\"\" \n        videoid=\"Sd2iGMl_b4o\" params=\"controls=1&#038;start=0&#038;end=0&#038;rel=0\" \n\n                    thumbnailresolution=\"res=recommended\"\n                \n        \n        ><\/lite-youtube>\n    \n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Combatting doubt as a CEO<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">In your journey as a CEO and independent business owner, you may feel doubt creep in on you. One reminder you should consider as a CEO is in regard to the impermanence of many of your decisions. We often attach too much to our expected outcomes in business, because we feel that we have already risked so much in becoming a CEO.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Your decisions are not as final as you may believe. So many decisions can be altered and reversed if needed. As you move forward with your decisions, take a look at the data and continue to iterate from there\u2014understanding that as a CEO, your data can help with making smarter decisions next time.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail<\/span><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">With every conversation we have on the podcast, I am asking our guests what the biggest differentiator is between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail. Ellen\u2019s answer was simple: \u201cIt is an affinity for failure.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">When you desire to fail as often as possible, it allows for the data you need to become the person you want to be and the business you want to have. If you are filtering everything through the lens of your own lived experience, what you know limits what you can dream. Until you fail, it is not possible for you to think bigger.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/xyMx0lIlDUg\" title=\"YouTube video player\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-stackable-spacer stk-block-spacer stk--no-padding stk-block stk-7b629ed\" data-block-id=\"7b629ed\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Important sections of the conversation<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[2:33] Data on independent business owners<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[3:15] Ellen\u2019s journey into entrepreneurship<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[6:08] Challenges in becoming a CEO<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[8:13] The science of asking questions<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[10:02] How to end your emails<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[15:04] Innovative marketing: curiosity &amp; collaborations as a business owner<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[18:56] Business growth through leading a team as a CEO<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[24:24] Combatting doubt<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[26:55] Cubicle to CEO podcast income reports<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">[31:37] Biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-stackable-spacer stk-block-spacer stk--no-padding stk-block stk-7f6a298\" data-block-id=\"7f6a298\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div id='lightbox-inline-form-72d76c86-612d-405d-b925-c461f6acfb95'><\/div><div id='variation-inline-form-var-143a635f-7d64-4314-88c6-796252bc7e73'><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-stackable-spacer stk-block-spacer stk--no-padding stk-block stk-43f155e\" data-block-id=\"43f155e\"><style>.stk-43f155e {height:50px !important;}<\/style><\/div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Sources mentioned in this episode<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.jstor.org\/stable\/2489199?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">JSTOR 1993 Study<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.researchgate.net\/publication\/232579629_Increasing_Voting_Behavior_by_Asking_People_If_They_Expect_to_Vote\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Journal of Applied Psychology Study<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/hubermanlab.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Hubermanlab.com<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/hubermanlab.com\/using-play-to-rewire-and-improve-your-brain\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Huberman, Andrew. \u201cUsing Play to Rewire and Improve Your Brain.\u201d Huberman Lab Podcast<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.sciencedirect.com\/science\/article\/abs\/pii\/S0149763411000492?via=ihub\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Siviy, Stephen M., and Jaak Panksepp. \u201cIn Search of the Neurobiological Substrates for Social Playfulness in Mammalian Brains.\u201d Neuroscience &amp; Biobehavioral Reviews, Pergamon, 15 Mar. 2011<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.simplypsychology.org\/social-roles.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Mcleod, Saul. \u201cSocial Roles.\u201d Social Roles and Social Norms , Simply Psychology, 2008<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.inc.com\/justin-bariso\/after-years-of-research-google-discovered-secret[%E2%80%A6]ilding-a-great-team-its-a-lesson-in-emotional-intelligence.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Google Study on Psychological Safety<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.ellenyin.com\/incomereport\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Cubicle to CEO Podcast Income Reports <\/span><\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Connect with the guest<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Website: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ellenyin.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Ellenyin.com<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Services: <a href=\"https:\/\/cubicletoceo.co\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Cubicletoceo.com<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Instagram: <a href=\"https:\/\/instagram.com\/missellenyin\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">@missellenyin<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Business Instagram: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/cubicletoceo\/\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">@cubicletoceo<\/span><\/a><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>Discover your signature CEO style with this 10 question quiz: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.ellenyin.com\/quiz\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">www.ellenyin.com\/quiz<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div id='lightbox-inline-form-72d76c86-612d-405d-b925-c461f6acfb95'><\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-ugb-accordion ugb-accordion ugb-5153b4e ugb-accordion--v2 ugb-accordion--design-basic ugb-main-block\" aria-expanded=\"false\"><div class=\"ugb-inner-block\"><div class=\"ugb-block-content\"><div class=\"ugb-accordion__item\"><div class=\"ugb-accordion__heading\" role=\"button\" tabindex=\"0\"><h4 class=\"ugb-accordion__title\">Episode transcript<\/h4><svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" viewBox=\"0 0 20 20\" class=\"ugb-accordion__arrow\" width=\"20\" height=\"20\"><path d=\"M16.7 3.3L10 10 3.3 3.4 0 6.7l10 10v-.1l10-9.9z\"><\/path><\/svg><\/div><div class=\"ugb-accordion__content\" role=\"region\"><div class=\"ugb-accordion__content-inner\">\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>What is it like to go from the cubicle to being the CEO of your own company? That is precisely the question that we are asking Ellen Yin because she five years ago quit her corporate marketing job without a backup plan. She then turned a single $300 freelance contract as a marketing consultant into a seven figure business. To date. She has mentored over 10,000 other independent business owners through her online coaching programs, and she reaches 1000s each week on her top rated podcast, cubicle to CEO. In this conversation, we talk about a wide range of topics, everything from the fact that a lot of independent business owners get into this without realizing they want to run a business in the first place, all the way through the science of asking questions and one mistake you might be making when you close out your emails. As a part of your client flow. We\u2019re getting into all of it. In today\u2019s episode with Ellen, you don\u2019t want to miss it. Hey, everyone, this is your host, Natalie Frank, and you\u2019re listening to the independent business podcast, more people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve victory.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>Ellen, thank you so much for joining me,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Natalie, I am so stoked to be here. Thank you for having me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>I\u2019m going to kick us off with a fun stat. Okay, we\u2019re gonna we\u2019re gonna make some numbers right off the bat here, because I know you and I both love, love our numbers. We recently ran a survey. And in that survey, we found that nearly three quarters of independent business owners say that they did not always intend on being a business owner. 72% didn\u2019t always intend on being a business owner. And for about two in five, that own independent business today. It just started for them as a side hustle. 43% just started as a side hustle. And I\u2019m curious in your journey, first of all, did you always know you were going to be a business owner? And what did that journey look like from your first freelancing project to where you are today?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>I love that style. It\u2019s so interesting to me, but it also makes me feel so seen because I myself am also an accidental entrepreneur. So to answer your first question, no, I did not intend on being a business owner. In fact, I was so I guess, on acclimated to this idea of being a business owner that in high school, I remember there were two business classes that some people took. And I honestly, Natalie, I\u2019m almost embarrassed to say this. But I honestly didn\u2019t even understand what the like what you would learn in a business class. I was like, Is it like a form of math? Like, are you learning accounting? Like, I just did not understand this concept. And so my journey into entrepreneurship, really were a series of steps where I just felt curious about something, leaned into it, and then it sparks something else. So what happened is back in 2017, I was 23 years old at the time, I had been in this corporate job for about 10 months. And I just knew that was not the place I was supposed to be. At that point, I did not think, Oh, I\u2019m going to quit this job and start my own thing. I just thought, oh, quit this job. And look for another role, that\u2019s a better fit for me. So I actually did something pretty drastic. I quit this full time job without a backup plan. I had nothing lined up not even an interview at another company. And it was a couple days before Christmas. So I kind of just took the holidays. And I was like, You know what, we\u2019ll figure this out in the new year. And then what ended up happening is, after the holidays, I ended up connecting with an old colleague of mine, someone I had worked with on teams at this corporate job, but we didn\u2019t know each other that well. So he actually was like, hey, through your work at this corporate job, I heard through the grapevine that you know a thing or two about Instagram marketing. And my wife and I, on the side, we actually have a family business, we own these two coffee stands, we don\u2019t have a lot of presence on social media, and we\u2019d love for your help with this. So that was my first freelance project that started at all Natalie, it was a $300 invoice. I remember that clearly. I had to go to dinner with them to like propose the thing in person. It was a whole ordeal. But it really opened my eyes to this opportunity that I have a skill set that I can monetize outside of a traditional job structure. And that\u2019s what started it all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>Wow. So truly from a $300 invoice to a what seven figure business?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Yeah, I mean, seven figure business. I always hesitate how that term is used because different people think of it differently. We\u2019ve made more than I think at this point $5 million in the business over the course of the last five years. I have not made seven figures in a single year. So it depends on how you define that but yes, either way, it\u2019s just mind blowing to me. cuz standing there with that client when we signed, you know the paper, I would have never pictured being where I am today.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>That\u2019s amazing. What were some of the challenges that you faced in that experience of going from, you know, first freelance project, all the way to the company that you\u2019ve built? Now? What What were some of the hurdles and obstacles?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>I think this might be not exactly the answer that you would expect. But my naivete was a big superpower. For me, I think I didn\u2019t know what I didn\u2019t know, because I wasn\u2019t one of those people that carefully prepped and planned to exit the corporate life and start a business, I kind of just didn\u2019t have a whole lot of fear in a weird way going into this, because I didn\u2019t have a whole lot of expectations. And so therefore, all the challenges that came were more things that were just learning curves of Oh, like, okay, taxes became so much more difficult, that\u2019s frustrating, or like, Oh, this is how you hire someone, or these are the things that could potentially cause challenges. In the workplace as someone who\u2019s new to hiring or new to being a leader new to being a boss, just roles that I had never anticipated for myself and roles that I was woefully, you know, an untrained and unprepared for. So like any business owner, I\u2019ve had many challenges, you know, months where we lost money, and there was no profit in the business. So things like that certainly have come up. And I don\u2019t want to paint this picture of, oh, you know, business is perfect, and everything is sunshine and rainbows. But I think the one thing that I did not struggle with as much as most people that I\u2019ve talked to maybe have struggled with, especially towards the beginning was the imposter syndrome. I think because of my ignorance, quite frankly, I just didn\u2019t have a chance to be to be, I guess, insecure about what I was doing, because I really didn\u2019t know what I was doing. And I didn\u2019t know what was normal or not normal. So therefore, I just kind of like blazed ahead, you know, full sail.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>And blazing ahead, you\u2019ve learned a lot You really did, you had the courage to take those leaps. And in doing so you\u2019ve learned an immense amount. And one of those things I had come across my feed very recently, and it and I\u2019ve been doing this for 15 years. It hit me, it just hit me. So we\u2019re gonna talk about that in just one second. But I want to tee up a little bit of science into what we\u2019re about to talk about. So the reality is questions hijack the brain, the moment you hear a question, the moment you are asked a question, you can\u2019t think of anything else, your brain immediately goes to answer that question. If I asked you, you know, what did you have for breakfast? And I give space for that you are immediately trying to remember what did I have for breakfast and you lose sight of all the other parts of the conversation. And that is a very powerful tool. Back in 1993 social scientists, Vicki Moore with Eric Johnson, David Schmidt line conducted a study with more than 40,000 participants that revealed that simply asking someone, if people were going to purchase a new car within the next six months, increased the likelihood they would purchase a car by 35%. asking them the question. And by the way, this isn\u2019t the only study that has shown that an even earlier study was published in the Journal of Applied Psychology asked citizens whether they were going to vote in an upcoming election. Now asking them that question, just asking them if they\u2019re going to vote, it increased the likelihood that they would vote by 25%. And I say all of that to say questions are incredibly powerful as you\u2019re moving into this independent business CEO mindset. And so you were sharing what you call it a conversion killer, I believe in how a lot of us are ending our emails. And so you said, Stop ending your emails with let me know if you\u2019re interested. Why, why should we not enter emails with let me know if you\u2019re interested? And what should we do instead?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Natalie, I am so excited that you are equally as passionate about this as I am in the fact that you took the time to do all of that research. So cool. I didn\u2019t know some of those data points, but it makes complete sense as you\u2019re sharing them. So the reason why I recommend people do not end their emails with let me know if you\u2019re interested, is because a statement does not invite conversation, write a statement, essentially, when somebody reads that you\u2019re giving them permission, or essentially, you\u2019re automatically giving them that leeway to be like, oh, I\u2019ll just take a mental raincheck on responding to this because there\u2019s there\u2019s no open loop, right? We we as humans, we are primed to respond to questions, as you said, and we don\u2019t want to leave people hanging. It\u2019s the reason why when you said hey, if you ask someone a question, like, what did you have for breakfast? Based on social norms? It would be really weird for you to sit there and just be completely silent, right? Like of course you\u2019re going to respond to that question. It\u2019s kind of the same thing digitally. If you ask someone a clear direct question, especially at the end of the email, the likelihood that they will respond is much higher because they don\u2019t want to leave you digitally hanging, right? They want to close that loop. And answer that question. A statement does not work the same way, because a statement is essentially saying, okay, somewhere down the line, if you remember that you\u2019re interested, and if you\u2019ve been remembered to respond, let me know, let me know. And it\u2019s, it\u2019s just such a closed ended way to, to end an email, but I see it happen all the time. And it\u2019s not just let me know, if you\u2019re interested. It\u2019s all of its variants, right? Let me know if that works for you. Let me know if you want to meet all of those things are examples of someone reading that and going, Okay, I\u2019ll take a mental rain check on your question or your statement rather.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>And I\u2019m guilty of doing that myself. When I get an email that ends in that way, I will very likely leave it unread in my inbox, thinking that maybe one day, maybe one day in the future, when life isn\u2019t so chaotic, I will get back to that email and spoiler alert friends, is life ever. Not that chaotic? No, I never go back. And then so much time passes, that I feel so much guilt about never responding that unfortunately, I become the ghost that we all dread, where I just archive it and move on with my life. So you are nailing a very key aspect of human behavior. Now, for the person who normally ends the email that way, okay, who says okay, just let me know, if you\u2019re interested in I\u2019m using my passive voice here, intentionally, because that\u2019s how I read it. When I when I read that in someone\u2019s email to me, what should we do instead? What how should we close out that email? Do you have any recommendations for us?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>I do, I want you to think of yourself as a guide. Okay. Think of yourself as How can I make this the easiest possible for someone to respond for them to burn the least amount of brain calories to know what they should say? Because that\u2019s another thing too, is when you place the responsibility on someone else to respond, sometimes because their lives are chaotic, or because they have a lot going on? It can it can almost feel overwhelming, like, Oh, I better wait to respond for when I have time to really sit down and think about what I\u2019m going to say right? We\u2019ve all felt that way before. But when someone asks us a very clear, specific question, it reduces that friction of responding because we don\u2019t have to sit there and think about all the possible things we could say. We only have to answer that one direct question. So a good question you could ask is, would you like to move forward with this? Is this a good fit for you? Which of these options do you prefer? What time? Would you like to meet all of these? Do you see all these are very specific. And again, like you mentioned earlier, Natalie, in that in that study about car buying, when someone was asked, Are you going to buy a car and the likelihood that they did was much higher? I think it\u2019s because you are placing a direct intention in someone\u2019s mind right at the forefront of their brain. So again, if you\u2019re asking someone, would you like to move forward with this? That intention is now sitting in the front of their brain? They\u2019re thinking, well, I need to decide, do I want to move forward with this? Yes or no. And I think helping someone make a decision. Facilitating a decision is one of the most powerful moves you can make in business, especially when it comes to conversion and sales.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>I love that. So so much. This is a great reminder for anyone listening, this is the time go back, revisit your client flow, look through those email templates. Are there little tweaks you could make based on all of that advice that Elon just shared? Right now today? It can take two minutes. That\u2019s it, jump into a template and conclude it with a question. And with a strong question. I love how tactical and actionable that advice is. One thing that I really love about you, Elon is just how innovative you are in marketing yourself, your business, you aren\u2019t afraid to try new things, you take risks, you are constantly paying attention to, you know, what\u2019s happening on different platforms. And so I\u2019m really curious, is that something that comes naturally to you? Is that something you\u2019ve had to learn as a business owner and any tips you have for us and just being so innovative ourselves when it comes to marketing our independent businesses?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Well, thank you for that huge compliment not I think, honestly, I think it\u2019s something that has always come naturally to me, mostly because I\u2019m a very curious person. I think curiosity is one of the most underrated strengths that you can have as an entrepreneur. So it\u2019s not that I know everything, or I\u2019m this genius, or you know, that just everything comes easy to me. It really is because I\u2019m willing to get curious and ask a lot of questions, and therefore in conversation with people idea, Spark. And so I think that\u2019s, that\u2019s the key to creativity is actually collaboration. And so even, for example, when we\u2019re talking about, let\u2019s say, partnerships, partnerships, especially between brands is a huge part of our business model as a media company. So we have to talk to brands all day long and really understand what are their goals for this year? What initiatives are they working on? What incentives can we align on and But that requires a lot of curiosity requires a lot of question asking and thinking about. Okay, so this is your goal over here. And this is our goal over here. How do we meet in the middle? How do we find fun ways, creative ways, unique ways to pour both of our resources and our communities together in order to achieve one shared common mission. So, you know, we\u2019ve had the pleasure of working with honey book before as a partner, and it\u2019s, it\u2019s so much fun, I think, if you treat business like a game, and you don\u2019t think inside this rulebook of, okay, it\u2019s always been done XYZ way, therefore, I need to follow this formula. But instead you look at it like, Okay, if I put, you know, roll this dice and move my character over here and color this a different thing, what could happen, and just staying very open to those possibilities is such a game changer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>When I hear you say that I hear and I\u2019m reminded of the fact that when we experience immense amount of pressure, in business, when we feel the weight of that pressure on us, it increases a lot of the stress hormones in our bodies, cortisol, for instance. And that actually makes our brains more more rigid, it actually inhibits us from kind of having that plasticity that allows us to think beyond the bounds of what we know, I think of it a lot like a GPS, like it\u2019s kind of saying, you know, when we feel that pressure, we feel like we have to zero in and go from point A to point B and there are no room, there\u2019s no room for detours, no room for exploration, innovation, adapting none of that. But what I\u2019m hearing you say is instead of feeling that pressure, you\u2019ve had this mindset of curiosity, and play, and that curiosity and play what it actually does to the brain is it increases levels of cannabinoids and opioids that are endogenous to our bodies, right like that aren\u2019t from the outside, we\u2019re not talking about drugs, here, friends, we\u2019re talking about actual hormones you already have inside of you, it increases levels of those sorts of things. And what it does is it actually makes your brain more plastic and enables you to see possibilities that you wouldn\u2019t have seen before to put yourself in positions that maybe you wouldn\u2019t have put yourself in before will link to some really cool science on play in the shownotes. If that\u2019s something you\u2019re interested in, and I know, the Hebron podcast has an amazing episode on this highly recommend listening to as well, the point being, I\u2019m hearing that that level of play and curiosity kind of abound in your overall approach to business and life. And you can see how that has played out in your ability to grow, you know, in a multitude of ways now leaning into that growth that you\u2019ve experienced, you\u2019ve gone from just being, you know, one, a team of one your own boss, and that, as we all know, is hard enough, that is a challenge as a solopreneur. If that\u2019s the position you\u2019re in, that is hard. But you\u2019ve expanded your team you\u2019ve grown and brought on employees. I want to talk a little bit about that one. When did you know it was time to hire and to what have you learned as a leader in that experience of going from just leading yourself which again, we know is hard to leading a team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Oh, my goodness, we could talk for hours about this. And I\u2019m still I\u2019m still very much in the trenches learning as a leader on this particular topic. I think it\u2019s actually my weakest area as a business owner. In terms of my own skill set and aptitude for you know, it does it that part like friendship connection comes really easy to meet management does not come easy to me it is like not something that I enjoy or that I thrive in. So I would say my first year of business 2018, completely solo, I did all the projects, all the things were all the hats. In 2019, my second year of business, I hired a part time contractor to start helping me with some of our client accounts. At the time, our business model was still a boutique marketing agency. So we were doing at done for you social media management for a multitude of clients. And so I brought her on to help with you know, small things at first, I think actually, her first project was literally putting together like kind of like a capstone report for this influencer marketing campaign, we had run for a client, and then it kind of delved into, okay, could you help with hashtags here? Could you populate some captions here? And it just kind of snowballed, you know. And actually, by that summer of 2019, she had, you know, really taken on a lot in that business. And then soon after, became my first full time employee. And then it\u2019s, it\u2019s funny looking back because you know, my business. Although we\u2019re more than five years now, in the grand scheme of business, we\u2019re still married very much a baby, right? When you look at Legacy businesses that have been around for generations, but it\u2019s really one thing that I hold very dear is that very first employee eventually went on to read and start her own business, but she still is part of our team to this day, in a different role. Her role has changed many times. She\u2019s now a Community Manager in one of our programs. But the fact that we\u2019ve kept that relationship so strong Over the years and have been able to adapt to each other\u2019s changing lives and changing businesses, I think speaks volume to the privilege that we have as independent business owners to not do business, the the expected or corporate way to not have to, you know, completely cut ties with someone because their ambitions may change or whatever it may be. So we have that adaptability as independent business owners that I think we really, really need to lean into. So anyways, from that point, fast forward to this day, I have two full time employees, and a few amazing contractors that I work with on a regular basis to help produce all of the content that we put out on cubicle to CEO to help with client work. And I think the biggest lesson that I\u2019ve learned in leadership and hiring is, when you are starting out as an independent business owner as a solopreneur. Everything in your mind, speaking of questions, everything that you come across your natural question is, how do I do this? Or what do I need to do? Right? You\u2019re asking a lot of how and what questions, the more you evolve as a leader, the more you have to train your brain to not ask so much how and what but instead, who, who would be the best fit for this, who could lead this project who could whatever it may be, right, and that\u2019s a totally different approach is a totally different mindset. And it is a transition, especially when you\u2019re used to doing everything yourself. And so I really had to learn that and I\u2019ve really had to learn how to allow people to, to make mistakes, and to figure it out on their own in the same way that we had to figure it out on our own because you can be there as a guide and a mentor and a support. But it does not mean that you have to treat you know your employees really any different than how you how you treat a business, you can allow them that same room for for safe play and for failure and for all those things, because that\u2019s how they\u2019re going to learn as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>Google did a study on what makes the most effective teams. And what\u2019s interesting about Google is you have Rhodes Scholars, you have MIT graduates, you have the brightest, oftentimes in the world coming into those rooms to work. And yet, they found that it wasn\u2019t intelligence that created incredible teams, they found that it was psychological safety, the ability for people on a team to do exactly what you just described, which is feel safe, to make mistakes, feel safe to voice their thoughts and opinions, bring their lived experience to the table, right show up as their true selves and know that they\u2019re going to be met, not with Well, if you screw up, you\u2019re out of here, you make one mistake, you\u2019re gone, right? That\u2019s that pressure we\u2019re talking about. They\u2019re actually encouraged to be curious to explore and to learn on their own so that they can grow into those roles and have success. So I, I hear a lot of wisdom in your leadership, even though you\u2019re saying, you know, I\u2019m learning everyday. And we all are. But again, it\u2019s that that endless curiosity that is so so, so powerful. Now, I want to talk for a second about doubt. Because we talked a little about some aspects of the CEO mindset, whether it\u2019s leadership, it\u2019s question asking even how we shift our questions, like you said, from the What the How to the who, Gosh, what a CEO hat that is, I want to talk about the doubt aspect of the CEO mindset. Because the reality is, from the outside looking in, it can be easy to assume that someone like you who\u2019s had this success, who\u2019s growing this team who\u2019s built this profitable business, you know, doesn\u2019t feel doubt, doesn\u2019t feel fear or insecurity in any way. However, I\u2019m willing to bet that that\u2019s not always the case. And so I\u2019m curious how you confront doubt. How do you navigate it when you know you\u2019re launching something big or you have a massive goal, and there\u2019s that insecurity that starts to creep up and creep in? What do you do in those scenarios? How do you push past it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>One thing that has helped me a lot in combating doubt, is reminding myself of the impermanence of many of our decisions. I think, as CEOs, as business owners, we often attach too much to our expected outcomes of something because we feel that we have already risked so much to even be here building our businesses. So every further risk we take, take feels like this has to work out or else right. But I think one of the things that has actually aided me most in our trajectory, and our growth has been this willingness to realize that many of the decisions we make in business and in life, quite frankly, are not permanent in the sense that they can be reversed, right? They\u2019re not so final as we would make them out to be and so I find a lot of comfort in that when I doubt in times of doubt, and and when I\u2019m unsure. Is this the right move? Are we doing this the right way? I think, okay, I can sit here and think all day in my head. But the truth is, and you and I both really align here, the data is going to tell the true story, right? You have to put it out there to gather the information to get the data How to make more informed decisions. You know, if you\u2019re just the blind leading the blind in your own head or or you know hypothesizing with your team or riffing with friends, although that is valuable, if that\u2019s the place that you remain stuck in, the truth is no one really knows until until you put it out there. And that data is so valuable. And so these days, I don\u2019t feel as fearful of just like doing things, even if I\u2019m not sure what the outcome will be. Because I find so much value in the information that is collected from that experience that regardless of whether it turned out the way I thought it would, or it doesn\u2019t, I still feel like it was a win. I\u2019m like, awesome, I have data now, that will help me make a smarter decision next time. And that to me is worth the try. I love it,<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>you do a lot with transparency as well. So you talk about, you know, the data you\u2019re getting internally and how you\u2019re kind of navigating that. But I do want to shine a light on the fact that you are incredibly transparent. When it comes to numbers, and you even share on your podcast, you know, income reports, for example, you are not one to shy away from getting real about the numbers. And I\u2019m curious as to your why there because I have a suspicion there might be something deeper going on here to see someone at your level to just be so transparent with numbers talking about it bringing bringing that into how you educate. Why do you feel like that\u2019s important?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Oh, my goodness, this is like this is what our entire media platform is built around cubicle the CEO was created to bring a transparent lens to business stories, right, we want to tell the stories of a of underrepresented entrepreneurs. But too, we want to do it through a financially transparent lens. Because I think when we\u2019re afraid of talking about money, when we keep people in the dark, it only hurts us in the end, right all of us. And I think as we collectively share data, share information, share transparency, we collectively raise our financial IQ, which again empowers us to make smarter decisions to ask for, you know, the right rates for the work that we\u2019re doing to advocate. For other people. There\u2019s so many I think benefits of coming to the table and normalizing talking about money in in industries, with your peers, with your bosses, with your friends with your family loved ones, you name it. And so really though it started out I mean, that\u2019s the mission now, but it started out like many things in a much simpler way. For me, what encouraged me to first start sharing my income reports was actually other women, other women who had trailblaze away, when I first started as a solopreneur, I was just a freelance social media manager with again, no context for what business really was what I should be charging, I felt like everything I was doing was kind of just flying by the seat of my pants. But then I started to find some income reports, mostly on blogs that it wasn\u2019t super common still isn\u2019t super common today, but more becoming more and more common, which is great. But at the time, I found, you know, a couple income report blogs, and I just started reading them and realizing things that I don\u2019t think I would have become aware of as quick or maybe ever had I not been exposed to that information, things like, Oh, I didn\u2019t realize like, this is how you allocate the money that you earn, like how you actually spend it, like what are the expenses that I should be investing in to help me grow my business, or, Oh, that\u2019s really smart that you aim for this percentage of profit, so that you can save X amount for taxes and then X amount for reinvestment and growth and X amount to pay yourself. Oh, that\u2019s how you manage that cash flow. Or oh, like, I didn\u2019t know that you could charge this much for this type of service, or this type of work with a client. So it was all of these new input things that would have taken me years of experience to come across myself, but because someone else was willing to open the doors, and, you know, give me a peek inside their business at their books, I was able to learn these things at an expedited rate. And so in having experienced that myself, Natalie, I was I was just overcome with this desire, this urge to pay it forward. I was like, if someone else did that for me, how cool would it be if I could share what I\u2019m learning in my business, what my business is actually making, but not just making what what we\u2019re spending on and what we\u2019re profiting and what we\u2019re learning on the way and the strategies that we\u2019re trying that work and don\u2019t work. If I could bring people with me into that conversation, maybe I could do for someone else what they did for me. And so that\u2019s how it started. It was just these emails these written reports that I did in 2019 until I switch to doing quarterly income reports on our podcast on cubicle to CEO and now every 90 days for four years. I\u2019ve shown up and shared exactly what our business makes spend some profits and all of the lessons along the way and it has been honestly one of the most favorite things I\u2019ve ever done in my business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>That\u2019s incredible to hear, as we close this out, I first want to say, there have been just nuggets on nuggets of wisdom with each question I have just been blown away, and I know you very well. And here I am, like wishing I could be taking notes, I have to be re listening to this one. Take some notes myself, there\u2019s a question that I love to ask at the end of every episode, because this is a podcast about the science of self made success. And so, Elon, I\u2019m really curious, what do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Oh, easy. It is an affinity for failure, a love for it actually, the desire to fail as often as possible, because like, like we talked about today, not data, drives everything right. And you cannot, you truly cannot become the person you want to be or grow the business you want to have. If you are basing everything, filtering everything through the lens of your own lived experience, because what you know, limits what you can drain, right. And so until you put yourself out there and experience, a lot of things meet a lot of people fail a whole ton. It\u2019s not possible for you to think bigger. And so when I look at all the most successful entrepreneurs I admire, they are hand in hand with failure. They are linked together, and they\u2019re excited about it. And so I think if you can fail forward and fail fast, you are going to do so much for your business compared to just trying to, you know, navigate everything with as much perfection as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>What an answer, Ellen, I have no doubt that our listeners are going to want to know where they can find you what you\u2019re what you\u2019re working on. Can you share that with us before we close it out?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Yin<br>Absolutely. Well, again, thank you so much for this conversation for this time. If you enjoyed my conversation today with Natalie, please come hang out with us on our podcast, cubicle to CEO wherever you\u2019re listening to this one. And our show we ask successful entrepreneurs the business questions you can\u2019t google. So actually, Natalie and cubicle to CEO like these two podcasts, the Independent Business Podcast and cubicle to see are such a great pair because on one, you get to look at all of the amazing science that you can Google but probably don\u2019t take the time to write. So Natalie short cuts out for you. And then on our end, you get to listen into all the questions that you really can\u2019t discover on Google. So that would be the best place to hang out. But if you want to just shoot me a note to say hi, I am on Instagram at Miss Ellen yen. And I would love to chat with you and hear more about your amazing independent small business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Natalie Franke<br>And I can say her podcast is phenomenal. So if you\u2019ve enjoyed any of our episodes, you need to also hop over there, hit that subscribe button and make sure that you\u2019re listening in as well as the cubicle to CEO podcast. Ellen, thank you so much for joining me today. 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