Making money doesn’t have to be hard with Denise Duffield-Thomas

Akua: Today’s episode, we are diving deep into money mindset, and this is a conversation you definitely wanna tune into. Denise Duffield Thomas, who is a Money Mindset mentor and author of her latest book, chill and Prosper, joins on the show to talk about how we can make more money. Easily in our business, but we don’t just talk about that.

We talk about what it means to be consistent in your business and how entrepreneurship can look differently for everyone. We unpacked so much during this conversation, so let’s hurry up and get into the episode. Welcome to Unbreakable. The podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship.

This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights, unexpected roadblocks and unshakeable grit that builds businesses that last. Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable.

Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going. Hello? Hello, Denise.

Denise: How are we doing today? Hi. It’s so good to be here. You know what? I feel like we could have talked for hours before we hit record. I really did, and I was like a cool, let’s, let’s reel it in.

Let’s Really?

Akua: That’s me. I’m a chatty girl. I know. Well, I’ve already just learned so many cool things about you within like the first five minutes and I’m like, there’s so many more things I wanna know. But I was like, you know what? Let me, let me bring the audience into the conversation. Let’s hit record.

Yes, let’s hit record. And, you know, I’m just, I’m so excited because as we were talking a little bit, um, on the call, I feel like there are business owners right now who are finding themselves in a really interesting place. You know what I mean? Like. There’s some business owners who are thriving, which is great, but there’s others where like sales are really slow.

And I think in those moments, no matter where you’re at in your business, money mindset is so important. So I was like, you are the perfect person to bring right now in this season. So thank you for being here. Oh, my pleasure. You are known as the Money Mindset mentor and so you obviously help people make money a lot easier.

Right. And so, but I wanted to know more about you before all of that. Like was there a moment with your relationship where your relationship with money was completely broken?

Denise: Well, I, I think I was kind of born into that, to be honest, because my mom was super young when she had me. She was 17, and I grew up being, I think, very, very aware of the powerlessness that she had around money.

And my earliest memories were my mom, my aunties, and my grandmother all saying, make your own money. Make your own money. And they were so adamant about it because they had so little power in their lives because of money. Mm-hmm. But that. Didn’t mean that. I was like, oh, great. You know, my relationship with money’s gonna be great from an early age because I think so many of us, we don’t know how to talk about money.

Um, we are fearful of money. We think it’s not for us. And I think there’s always little experiences that all of us have that really do shape our relationship with money as adults. Not only how our parents and our family members talked about money, but there could be other things too. Like I was very bad at math.

I have Dyscalculia, which I only found out. As an adult, and so I associated me being bad with math, to me being bad with money as well, right? And so I spent most of my twenties especially, um, I got into a ton of debt because I didn’t know how to deal with debt. I had a lot of money. Shame. I didn’t wanna open my credit card statements, I didn’t wanna look at, at those things.

However, I had this. Uh, really good work ethic because that was drummed into me. So I always had four or five jobs, you know, and I was always kind of in that hustle mentality. But I think what was underpinning my money blocks, which is still the same today, which is what I wanna talk about, where those money blocks will chase you, is that I want people to like me.

Mm-hmm. I wanna be the good girl. I wanna be helpful. And so I, when I started my business, I fell into the same patterns that I see a lot of women fall into undercharging over-delivering, not wanting to have conversations with my clients about money, feeling really awkward about setting my prices, increasing prices, chasing up invoices.

All of those things I see are so common, especially in women. And they’re things that I struggled with as well. And even though now I’ve made. Multimillions of dollars in my business, I still want people to like me, and I still have to work on that conditioning that I have. So I think even though, and even though at an early age I knew, I knew I wanted to make money, it was still really tricky for me to be able to have those conversations about money and to unlearn some of those things.

And I think. My only job really as a mentor, and I don’t call myself a money expert. I’m not a financial advisor. I’m not an accountant. I want to be able to normalize these conversations about money so that we can realize that we we’re allowed to talk about money just like we are allowed to talk about anything.

And I think so many of us, especially women, we’re so open with our friends, we’re so happy to talk about anything in our lives, but money still feels like it’s a bit of a taboo.

Akua: Yes. I love that so much because I think so many of us can relate to it of like how. I don’t think we realize how early our relationship with money starts and it literally starts when you’re so young and like similar to me.

I also grew up with a single mom and how you said like you had four or five jobs. That was also me, like also like always hustling because in my mind, in order to have to make money, I have to work super, super, super hard. I have to sacrifice pieces of myself or my health and all those different types of things in order to make money.

And like I said, it’s just so interesting when you look at family dynamics and how much that. Instantly catches up with you and how you said like, these things chase you. And I’m like, oof. Like that was kind of like a gut check. ’cause that’s so true. And like I think I’ve made a lot of progress with my money mindset, but now that like I’m wanting more and bigger, those beliefs, they come back like it’s chasing me.

And I’m so, like you just saying that, I was like, oh, like that’s like what I feel right now. And so for you, when did you finally realize in that moment of like. Was there like a critical moment where you realized like, okay, like this is this, is it like money mindset, this is what I wanna lean into? Like where you saw like the benefits of that?

Denise: Well, it’s funny, I was actually with my mom and we were at a shopping mall and I got a phone call and it was someone saying, oh, I heard you’re a speaker. And this was very early. You on my journey, and I’d put on my website that I was a speaker, even though I wasn’t really. Mm-hmm. And this is a good tip, right?

For SEO and this lady said, oh, I’m putting together, um, it’s a government away day for a local council, and they’re looking for a motivational speaker. I saw that on your website. You’re a motivational speaker. I was like, yes, I’m, and she said, what’s your right? And I said, what’s your budget? Do you mind me asking?

She said, oh, $500. And I went. What a coincidence. My rate is $500, right? And so I’m having this conversation with my mom and I hung up and I went, oh my God, that’s, I just booked a speaking gig. And this was, you know, a long time ago. And my mom said, oh, what are they paying you? And I said, $500. And I saw her face in that moment, and I think you’ll get this, as you know, a oldest child of a single mom for me.

She went, that’s my weekly wage at the nursing home. Oh my God. It, I felt so bad and she wasn’t trying to make me feel guilty at all because she’s, you know, she’s so proud of me. But it was that, in that moment I just thought. This is so inappropriate. Mm-hmm. I cannot believe that I’m gonna get paid to go and speak on stage for 45 minutes.

And of course it’s like the travel and all the things, but I was like, oh, gross. And I felt so guilty. And I think that is such a big thing for so many of us that we have to work on, is we are allowed to make money doing things that we love. Doing things that are, could be very easy for us, but hard for other people that are not traditional jobs.

Because so much of the work that I do now is kind of from the outside. It’s like, oh, do people just like, you just get to talk to people? Like what? That’s not a real thing. And I think in that moment I realized, I was like, oh, this, there’s so many emotions around money. This is not so easy anymore. Mm-hmm.

And I think because I grew up in that thing of the more you work, the more money you can make it. It’s like the math didn’t math all of a sudden. Yes. And then similar things happened when I, uh, when I wrote my first book, I self-published it and it was $10. And every time someone bought it, I was like. I’m gonna have to call this person up and read it to them over the phone because it’s, how are you still, how are you paying me for something that I wrote a year ago?

Like the math does not math. And I think that’s a big thing that a lot of people have to unlearn. And it doesn’t matter if you. You know, don’t have a similar background to you and I, you could have grown up in a family that still wa was wealthy, right? Yeah. And, but they still drummed into you. You have to work hard to make money.

And so now in this new economy where we can do things that aren’t hard, aren’t necessarily always stressful, do, don’t always require a ton of schooling or education. It feels wrong. It feels weird, and it brings up feelings of guilt and layer that on with all of the things that are happening in the world, which we cannot avoid because we see them.

24 7 reamed into our eyeballs. And if you’re someone who really deeply cares about other people and you feel the interconnectedness of the world, that is going to add a layer of guilt in as well. Yes. And you think, who am I to make money when people are suffering in the world? Yes. It does not feel fair.

It is not fair. And then you start to psych yourself out because you go, how am I getting paid to do this when teachers have to buy their own school supplies? That’s not fair. How am I getting paid to do something I love when someone on the other side of the world is suffering and I can see it on my phone and I cannot ignore it.

All of that is layered in and then we think, why is it so, why is it so hard for me to send this invoice? Right. That’s why, because yeah, women, we, everything that we do, we are thinking, how does this impact everybody? This is all happening. In a split second, isn’t it? Mm-hmm. We’re going, how is this impacting my friends, my family, my peers, this woman that I saw on the other side of the world who’s suffering my community?

You know, all of that’s coming in and yes, we, you spoke about this even before we hit record, is there are economic challenges happening in our lives, in our clients’ lives that are real and we cannot. Gaslight ourselves out of that by going, oh, love and light let’s, you know,

Akua: need some affirmations and

Denise: Exactly.

However, there is, there are always opportunities in any economy. Mm-hmm. Right. And if we are clear-eyed about that and say, look, I need to take care of myself and my family and contribute. To the world in a way that feels good to me. I think the trouble is for so many, like heart centered kind of people, it feels like it’s never enough because it’s, it’s not, yeah.

It’s not ever enough. Right. And so we feel the lack, we feel the scarcity, we feel the guilt and all of that. I don’t know about you. I, I know it’s overwhelming for me and I’m. Very successful. Right. And so of course it’s gonna be overwhelming. We have to have compassion for ourselves that it’s, it’s a lot to, it’s a lot to

Akua: navigate.

It is, it is. And I love that you acknowledge that because I think even too with myself, I’m like, we, it’s, it’s easy to forget that so many things of us as human beings, like we’re connected. So when you’re thinking of like, I need to make money. Like, even for me, I’m like, there is so much heaviness in the world and I’m like, oh gosh, you know, like I wanna make more and this and that.

And then like, I’m like, well, why do I feel so bad about it? And sometimes you be like, oh yeah, because like there’s so many different things that are happening around us that is unfortunate and really out of our control. And I think for me, like a lot of the times of, um, how I always try to think things through, I’m like, I wanna make more money so I can do more good.

Like where I can be able to help make an impact in some way. With like specific causes that I really care about. And I think that’s something to do that’s like helped me kind of get past it. But then like again, like even right now, it’s, it’s hard. It’s hard. And trying to keep that front and center and I just love that you just talked about just the different ways that money truly holds us back, that goes beyond family about how we show up And the speaker thing.

I think somebody of as business owners, that same, same, like I literally had my first speaking opportunity paid, got to fly out everything and I absolutely undercharged and I was like. Kicking myself, right. And you do you feel that shame, you feel that guilt. And it’s like, oh. Because in my mind I’m like, well, am I gonna get the same opportunity again?

You know what I mean? Like in that like kind of that scarcity mindset. And I was like, Aku, like you did a good job. You poured into them, the next opportunity will come. And now, you know, and so for you, I feel like a lot of business owners, you know. We, you said earlier that it, it doesn’t have to be hard to make money.

Like you don’t have to work super hard, and of course work is required, but I think a lot of, as business owners, we find ourself in these tensions of ease and hustle. Ease and hustle. And how, how have you navigated that? Because I do agree we need to make more money, but it’s like also too, like, don’t we need to work hard?

I don’t know. It’s, it, it is

Denise: tricky because I, I think when we don’t, we feel guilty. Yes. And I’ve, I’ve. I’ll tell you my secret with this too is that I’ve taken up hobbies that can fill up some of that guilt stuff of feeling like you always have to be on, you always have to be doing something. Mm-hmm. So I do cross stitch, which takes a million years to.

Create even one slightly small thing. And the thing is too, you could never sell it. So anytime you start a hobby and you think, now I have to monetize this, you go, this is like a thousand hours worth of stuff, and it’s this crappy little picture, you know, that’s mm-hmm. Crooked. So it’s, I, I think everyone needs a healthy outlet to put that hustle into Sometimes.

That’s not always your business. Yeah. Because it’s like having an assignment always due. There is ne if you, if you wanted to really burn yourself out, it’s so easy to do as an entrepreneur because there’s always more social media you can create. There’s always more. A customer service that you can do, you can always overdeliver to your clients.

And what I’ve had to learn is to just to be like, that’ll do, that’ll do pig. I dunno if you ever saw the movie, babe, but it’s like, yeah, that’ll do a pig because otherwise. It’s never enough. Mm-hmm. And you always have that hungry chay kind of feeling. So that’s just one little tip for anyone who is used to that hustle and grind.

Mm-hmm. It’s hard to get out of that mentality. And this is, this is connected to what we’re seeing in the world, right? Is that it’s never enough for some people. Yeah, it’s never enough. Mm-hmm. And I, I don’t always know what that line is, because especially if you’re in your empire building phase of your business, which let’s face it, a lot of people listening to this podcast, you are in that hungry phase where you’re like, when is it going to happen to me?

And. There are times where you do have to hustle a little bit more. However, I think there’s always healthier ways that you can do it and um, I’m a big fan of batching up my work. Mm-hmm. So I actually, when I do my podcast, I probably only go into the studio four, five times a year. To do my whole year’s worth of content for my podcast.

So I, I do maybe 10, 12 episodes in a day, and then I’m like, okay, I don’t have to think about that aspect when I, but when I first started my business, I started doing it on a Monday. I’d go to the hairdresser, get my hair done, and I would do five videos in a day. And that, that’s my month’s content. Right.

And so if you’ve got a hustle brain like that, you actually can make it work for you and to like see how far ahead you could get with things. Mm-hmm. Um, this year I did my whole year’s social media content in February. Oh wow. Yeah. Because I was like, how can I utilize that? I don’t know that part of my brain.

I have a DH adhd. Mm-hmm. That can do that and then go, oh, I don’t have to think about that for a while. It’s really fun for me to do that. And I think the thing that people sometimes ask me is like. What strategies are you using in your business, right, that have made you millions of dollars? And it is that consistency, but I’m not a consistent person, so I’ve created strategies in my business to create consistency, which is intense batching.

But then I don’t feel like I have to be on all the time anymore. ’cause I’m like, oh, I’ve done that bit. Oh, that’s great. And that I think that can really help you because otherwise you just think it’s not enough. I’ve gotta feed that machine. I’ve gotta feed that machine. It still gives me lots of, um, spaciousness to create things in the moment if I, if I’m inspired.

But the, the bulk of my work is done in very intense bursts. I, I think a very healthy thing too, that I had to realize is that I am not my business. Mm-hmm. And I learned this from one of my mentors, hero bogar. She’s just an incredible woman. She’s in her eighties and she’s taught so many entrepreneurs.

This distinction of separating yourself energetically from your business, your business has its own energy. And when I learned that from her, it really did change a lot of things in my business because one, I didn’t take things as personally anymore. I was like, it’s okay that some people like the business and some people don’t because that’s not me, the human me.

I could separate myself a bit from the work and be a bit more detached from it and say, oh, it’s easier to batch my stuff now because I know what the business needs. And also when someone consumes that, it’s not of my business, I’ve done my part. Mm. Instead of feeling like I, I’m still, I’m like, gestating this baby and I’m attached to it via an umbilical cord.

Does that make sense? Yes. Felt so much easier for me to do that. Yeah.

Akua: Oh. I love that you shared that so much to unpack within that of like, we are not our business, but it’s so easy. Like for me, my worth has always been tied to productivity. Always. And even now, it still shows up and rears its ugly head regularly where I’m like, Akua.

You are not, I have to say like you are not your business. So if somebody doesn’t like something, it’s okay. It’s not a reflection on you. Like I have to remind myself these things to be able to really detach from the work. And I love what you talked about earlier with consistency of how you have created strategies so you can remain, remain more consistent.

And that has been the key to success. And so for you. Because not everybody can batch, right? Like everybody has, like you have figured out strategies that work truly for you. So how, do you have any advice for business owners that are struggling to be consistent to show up and how can they figure out a consistency strategy for themselves?

Denise: Yes. So I learned this back in 2009, where one of my business mentors said, you’ve got to show up every day. In some form and you’ve got to show up every week. And so I went, okay, I will show up on social media every single day and I will do something once a week. And it’s changed over the course of my business, depending on how much brain energy I have, right?

Mm-hmm. It started out as long form blog content, then it turned into a podcast. Sometimes it’s a video depending on, you know, where I’m at, but that, I’ve been doing that since 2009. And that’s the consistency that it takes of showing up in people’s lives, being a consistent presence, developing that know, like, and trust factor.

And even if I stopped now, there’s so much content out there. Mm-hmm. I think the thing though is that we overthink it because we think we have to reinvent the wheel all the time.

Akua: Yes.

Denise: And sometimes I’ll go in the podcast studio and I will go to the way back machine to my blog posts from 10, 15 years ago and go, oh my God, that’s still relevant.

Now I’m just gonna rerecord a version of that because I’m different. The energy’s different. My examples are different. And I think that that becomes part of the scarcity mindset, right, of we always think it has to be new and sexy. And because I’ve made that commitment, I’m gonna show up every day in some way, and I’m gonna show up once a week in a longer form way.

It’s just a no. Like that’s non-negotiable. And even when I was doing it week by week and not batching, I’d be like, okay, I’ve made this commitment to send out a newsletter on a Thursday, and I’d have to pretend that thousands of people were waiting for it and would email me if it wasn’t sent out. Like that’s how I had to trick myself to do it.

And sometimes I’d be like. Look, that wasn’t very good, but I did it. And sometimes they were the ones that people went, oh my God, that I needed that at the exact time. Sometimes people would be like, eh, whatever, and I’d agonized over it. But it’s the consistency over time of going, well, I sent out 52 of those this year, and not every single one had to be a masterpiece.

Akua: Yes.

Denise: You know, sometimes it was just one little nugget that someone got from it, but I think people get used to you showing up and then because you show up, they know that they can refer you to somebody else and that’s when this, it starts to, to grind starts very slowly at the start, but at the momentum.

Creates momentum. Creates momentum, and I do think everyone can batch. I think that sometimes we psych ourselves out for it because we think it has to be in real time. Yes. But I always say to people, it’s as long as your heart and intention is there, when you create it, it really doesn’t matter and it’s none of your business when someone consumes it, because it could come at the exact right moment for them at that time.

Like I do it a little bit extreme because. I, I, you know, it’s so, so easy for me to go into a podcast studio now and do my 10 episodes, but I’ll have people say, oh my God, I loved your email this week, your newsletter. And I think, what did I say? I know, like, what did I,

Akua: what did I send you?

Denise: What did I say?

Because not only did I do it maybe three months ago, I haven’t, I didn’t touch it since. You know, because my team then did the transcript and then they turned that into an email. And so it’s still my words, my energy, but I can’t, I, like, I can’t do all of that myself. And I think it’s okay to realize that too, is that your heart and intention can be in everything that you do, but it, it doesn’t have to be hard.

It doesn’t have to be stressful and. The biggest thing is it doesn’t have to be perfect.

Akua: Yes, yes. That’s the biggest thing. Yeah. Oh, I just love everything that you’re sharing because it, it’s just, it’s so important for business owners and like I love you said like everybody can’t batch you just, we just psych ourselves out and really just, I think like it’s that momentum piece and the way that you gain momentum is if you make changes that help.

Remove decisions is one thing that I have noticed. Like for me, example, I fell off the gym for a little bit and I was like, okay, I gotta get back into it. So for example, I like make sure that my apartment is cleaned the night before I lay out all of my clothes. I literally put my water bottle with already filled with water.

On the counter with the key so I can like just grab it and go have my shoes already by the door, like, right. So then when I get up, I don’t have to make a decision of like what I need to wear or where are my keys? Oh shoot, I gotta fill up the water bottle. Like, and that is how you start to really make that momentum.

Is like those little small key things that can really remove just barriers in the day to day. ’cause like, I think, like I don’t even know how many decisions that we make every day. I’m sure millions of decisions per day. I don’t even know. But I think like, just stuff like that. So I love that you shared that of like how you’re just showing up consistently and how we can still batch and, and do those things to make more room and to be more innovative, to be more creative as business owners.

I think that’s so, so important. And so as we even talk into. Like that consistency piece. And if we’re making like, and you know, making more money in our business, a lot of business owners still struggle with pricing. And what are you seeing right now business owners, the mistakes that they’re making with their pricing?

Denise: Yes. Well actually I started seeing this during the pandemic where people were really panicking over prices and which is always a huge issue I think for, especially for women, is undercharging in the first place. Yes. And then people were just kind of automatically discounting and stuff like that. And I remember I wrote this massive big article.

In the first kind of two years of the pandemic of saying, here are 10 different things you can do before you discount. You know, and there’s things like you can do, offer a light version of what you do. You can offer a DIY version, you can, you know, if pe, if your premium service is a little bit too expensive, this is a great time to create a course right on that, a group program, even a book version of what you do, because then it’s a little bit, you know, it’s a, a less of a commitment, but it’s still.

Then freeze up your time for those high-end clients, right? Mm-hmm. Um, you can do a buy one, get one. You can bundle up things. But I think so many of us get into a panic mode and our first reaction is just to go, okay, I’m, I’m gonna discount. And there are some economic realities here too that we’ve noticed of.

Like in our last couple of launches, we had more people taking payment plans. Than before. So that’s increased. And also higher default rates on payment plans too. And I think if you can go into those things a little bit clear-eyed and not take it personally, that’s a really, really key thing. Um, we know roughly what our default rate is going to be on a launch, and we’ve seen that go up a little bit.

So now we go, okay, well that’s a, that’s just a new metric. For us, and that’s okay too. So don’t just go straight to discounting. It can be really disheartening. It can have a very desperate energy around it. Yes. Um, there are other ways that you can do it. Don’t give away everything. You know, as I said, you could, you can offer a light version.

Mm-hmm. You know, rather than, especially if people are asking for discounts, I think this is a really key thing too, because that can feel so awkward. Right. If someone’s like, can you do a better price? And I, I struggle with that myself and I think it’s really good to go. You know what, let me see what I can do, because you know, normally on this package it would be, say you’re a website designer, you know, it’s 10 pages.

Um, so if you are, you know, are a little bit more on a budget, um, we can do five pages, right? Don’t give away your best stuff and automatically discount, be like it’s a win-win, right? Yeah. You’re allowed to receive. In return. And, uh, I love the affirmation I serve, I deserve. Mm, and it’s such a key one because when we feel guilty, when we feel scarce, it, like the energy is off sometimes, right?

Yeah. And we feel bad about it, and it’s, we have to just remind ourselves, no, this is a win-win. It has to be a balanced energy. And I serve, I deserve, yeah. And you know what? Forgive yourself. We’ve all taken on clients. We’ve all taken on red flag clients. Yeah. We’ve all made mistakes around discounting.

We’ve all done things we’ve regretted and give yourself permission. You don’t have to stay in bad situations with clients. Sometimes the money is not worth it. Mm-hmm. Um, you can renegotiate, you can say no. Um, and you can forgive yourself for things. Right. Um. So I have a book called Chill and Prosper, and there’s some scripts in there for people about things like, you know, if a client does ask for a discount, or what happens when someone’s renewing their rates with you.

Like there’s a couple of just little things that make it an easier conversation. And you can always say to people too, you know, let me think on this. Uh, you don’t have to answer. Right in the moment. And it’s, it’s okay also to say no. And sometimes when we say no, something bigger is coming. Um, but you know, forgive yourself if you’ve made mistakes, because we all do it.

I still do it all the time. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. Oh, I love that because that’s, that’s such a, a important note is to really forgive ourselves and, you know, I think I like now take pause when people reach out to me about stuff. ’cause I’m like, I don’t have to respond right away. I think I, we always, like, as business owners, like, we would have this like, sense of urgency.

Um, instead of taking the time to be like, okay, is this price. Okay. Like, does it align with me what I need to, you know, pay bills, like all those different types of things. So I reminded myself of like, taking pause. We had a, a guest come on the show, which he was absolutely phenomenal and he found himself in a very interesting predicament as a business owner.

Like he had no leads in the middle of 2025, his business was at zero, getting ready to go back to a full-time job. And we had him come on the show as a case study, but one of the things that he said is that he actually lowered his prices in order to propel himself forward. And so I would love to hear for you, have you heard that?

Or like, what are your thoughts on that? Because I think sometimes as business owners, okay, like, no, no discount. But I know like, and I know like it, there’s certain circumstances where that warrants that, but I just, I would love to know your thoughts on that.

Denise: For sure. It’s always about the energy behind it, right?

Mm-hmm. So. Say for example, if you are wanting to launch something and you’re a little bit unsure about the price, I always say to people, launch this as an, as an introductory price, because then it gives you leeway. Yes, it gives you leeway later on to increase it, but it’s also a really great marketing tool.

But I think too, just being able to acknowledge yourself of like, you know what? I feel a little bit vulnerable about this. I’m not sure what to, to price it. I’m probably undercharging it, so let’s, let’s make this an introductory price. Similarly, when it comes to things like discounts, again, it’s always about the intention behind it, I would say, as well, is.

Don’t give away the farm. Like don’t. Mm-hmm. Always, um, put in a lot of your own personal time, for example. So if it’s something where it’s like not gonna burn you out, if a million people buy it

Akua: yeah.

Denise: Then okay, fine. But make a big deal out of it. Make a really big deal, deal out of it. You can put a timeframe on it.

You can say it’s limited to a certain amount of people because again, I think that’s a kind acknowledgement of I serve, I deserve. Yeah. You know, it’s like this isn’t for everyone. This isn’t forever. I’ve had people even just be honest about this and say, look, I just got a big tax bill so I am gonna do something crazy that I haven’t done before.

Sometimes it’s a marketing tip, but like I’ve seen people genuinely do it and say, look. I like, I’ve got space for five clients at a ridiculous price. It feels different than like, oh my God, please buy from me. You know? It’s just a different energy, and so if you can go into it just eyes wide open, right?

Mm-hmm. I’ve also seen people do things like pay what you want. Have you ever seen when people do that? Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Again, the energy is so crucial behind this because if you were. Unattached, which is really hard to do. Yes, yes. And not take it personally, still have parameters around it. And to have minimums or suggested things like suggested price points.

Um, I actually dislike pay what you want, not even as a money mentor. As a client. Mm-hmm. Because I feel, I just wanna know how much, like, please just tell me the price because like, don’t make me decide. Exactly. Don’t make me decide. Yeah. And also don’t make me feel bad about like, am I paying you the right amount?

Like when I go to America and there’s tipping culture, I so appreciate when the machines just tell you the number. Yes. Oh my God. Because I. I get so stressed about it, right? So you’ve gotta think on the other side for your clients, if you are really wishy-washy and like, and apologetic and the energy is so yuck, you know?

Whereas if it feels like, Hey, this is a win-win, right? I’ve got this very limited time thing and you can jump on it if this is something you wanna do, and it’s, it just feels fair and clean. Mm-hmm. And I think that’s what we’ve gotta do. Just a little side note too, ’cause you said about someone who’s going back to a job, I’ve seen this quite a bit, obviously over the last couple of years, there’s nothing wrong.

If people need a little bit of economic certainty at the moment, oh yeah. 1000%. And this does, this does not mean that you’re not an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. Like that’s a key, such a key thing because I think there’s a lot of shame around that. There’s shame in people closing down businesses or shutting down different parts of their business.

And I just want, want you to think about. A long-term entrepreneurs like Richard Branson, who was such a hero of mine for such a long time, one of the first entrepreneurs, I think inspired me to start my own business. When you look at the amount of like companies under the Virgin brand who that have gone under over the last, uh, 30, 40, 50 years, I don’t even know how long he’s been in business.

He had Virgin Brides. Virgin Cola, like this is part of being an entrepreneur is that they will always be economic cycles, always. There will be ups and downs in our industries. There’ll be, uh, technology that goes obsolete. There will be, but we just think we are the first. People going through it, right?

Yep. We think this is real. What’s happening now, and it is real, but it is also just part of the journey. So if you need to take on a part-time job or a full-time job for a while because you know your nervous system is not creative in economic uncertainty, do it and keep that business dream alive or use that time to go.

I’m gonna collect experiences and stories for the next version of this. Or I’m gonna just take a breath and see what’s happening and what people need and try things out. Try being a consumer in my industry for a little bit and see how I could do things better. And I’ve seen even people who have sold their businesses and, and said, I’m retiring now.

It’s only a couple of like, just a little bit of a pause before they go. Oh. That’s interesting, but they needed that spaciousness. Yes. So that’s, that’s okay too. I actually think that sometimes gives you an opportunity then to. Be really picky about the clients and the things that you take on if you don’t need the money.

Yeah. Because then you can go, like, you can set boundaries that you maybe wouldn’t have had the courage to do before. You could go, no, this is when I’m doing my clients and this is, this is what you get. Mm-hmm. Because when you feel like you have no choice, that’s when the wishy washiness starts, or they’re over-delivering starts.

So I will say though, yes, you know, people are not necessarily buying. Everything at the moment, you know, like there’s, let’s just face it, right, there’s economic challenges, not just in America. Even though most of my clients are American. Um, I have clients all over the world, and this is happening in every country.

Because people are, have uncertainty. Yes. You know, there are big things happening in the world. There are still challenges that are happening from COVID, like, you know, supply chains and Yeah. Let alone tariffs and things like that. Right. So what I noticed though, in the pandemic, I had so many people who pre pandemic were saying, I can’t do my business online.

I can’t, it has to be in this certain way. And then we learned, no, no, no. We actually can do so many things online. We can change the way we work. And then I noticed that there were some businesses that were doing so well. And an example was, um, it was like September and I thought, I’m gonna get my kids a cubby house for Christmas.

Like a tree house kind of thing, right? Yeah. And I went to this like crusty old man business. And said, I wanna buy a cubby house. And I’d always driven past it. And he does sheds and stuff and he goes, oh, I don’t know if I could get it done for Christmas. And I was thinking, it’s September, I’m gonna, I’m so organized.

And he was the busiest he’d ever been in his entire career because everyone was at home. Yeah. And they were like, I’m gonna do the shed, I’m gonna do the carport. And I was like, this guy does not have social media. He does not have a website. He does not have an assistant. He’s probably still doing his invoices on paper, which he, yep, that’s what he did for me.

And I thought, there are so many businesses in any economy that you don’t realize are doing well. They need support, they need help, they need whatever. Right. And so when. Like back when I first kind of started, there was a trend where, you know, like websites were like 10 grand. Mm-hmm. Right? And so a lot of those businesses who were serving people like us who would do a website every two years, now we’re like, Hmm, we’ll spend it in other ways.

They were, some of those people were like, oh, well the female entrepreneurs aren’t buying new websites all the time. Oh, well I guess my business is done. It’s like. Sometimes your clients shift and change in different economic circumstances, right? Yes. Sometimes it’s not who you think and, or sometimes the way that you offer your service changes.

Sometimes. Instead of making things, you’re teaching people how to make things. Sometimes it’s done for you. Sometimes it’s teach people how to do it. Sometimes it’s a three month process. Other times it’s like, okay, I’m, I’m gonna do a business in a box in a weekend for people who want it. That can feel discombobulating if you’ve always done things in a certain way.

Um, but I also think it’s an exciting challenge for our creative brains, right? To go, okay, who needs me? How do they need me? What’s, what’s shifted and changed and to really like. Pivot in that, and sometimes it’s feeling that excitement you felt at the start of your business mm-hmm. Where you were a bit D Lulu, and just went, yeah, I’m just gonna do it.

Like that’s, that’s the energy that we need at the moment. Right. I also think too, there’s some practical considerations there about like being. Like being mindful about what you’re spending money on. Yeah. As well. Not, uh, I’ve seen like see this a bit with people when they start making money too, they upgrade everything in their life.

And I teach this, right? I teach upgrade your life. But there’s also that thing of like, okay, but what, what can you afford right now? Like, what is important? And is your business not recession proof, but do you have a little bit of savings behind you? You know, and, and that’s okay too. There’s definitely some ego hits that might come with stuff like that sometimes as well.

But a reminder, look, I’m in this for the long haul. I’m an entrepreneur for the rest of my life. I will have ups and downs like any entrepreneur will. And maybe instead of reading business books, you are reading autobiographies of people who’ve been around for a while. So you see, oh, there is a cycle. Oh, okay.

I can, I can do this. I’ve got this, and self-belief is always gonna be important, but. It’s pretty important right now, right? Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. Watch what you’re taking in and yes, I love being informed about what’s happening in the world, but I know that if I get, if I get too sucked into it, 24 7 mm-hmm. I start to feel pessimistic, um, depressed, helpless, angry, guilty, all of those things.

And I’m like. This is why listening to podcasts like yours, right? Yeah. So important for people. Plug in, listen, get little nuggets from, from different people and you know, like support your business friends. Send each other messages and go, okay, let’s do, let’s do an hour of power. Like what, what’s on your list?

What clients do you need to contact? Let’s do it babe. Let’s do it. Let’s check in with each other in an hour. That’s the stuff I needed to do at the start of my business. And that’s the stuff that sometimes we need to go back to. Right? Those basics of going, oh yeah, okay, I need to focus. And so it’s not, um, hustle.

I call this in my book sle, and it’s like sle. Chilled hustle, but it’s like intentional hustle. Mm-hmm. Right? It’s not like you and I went back when we’re teenagers doing five jobs. That’s not, that’s not smart. Right. It’s like, what are the things that will make a difference? And that could be, okay, I’m, I’m gonna make sure I have five discovery calls a week, and I’m gonna do focus everything on that.

Just that I’m not gonna do all the things. I’m not going to, you know, be on all of the platforms. I’m gonna really, really focus, because if we’ve got limited time and attention, that’s, that’s what we have to do. Especially if you’ve got kids, you know, if you’ve got limited time, if you’ve got chronic health conditions.

Like it’s, it’s really focusing on those things that are gonna, are actually gonna make a difference.

Akua: Yeah. Oh my gosh. You just gave like so much good gold, like gold throughout this whole time. Um, just so many things to that I really want us to lean into. ’cause when you, you said earlier too about like the energy behind it.

Like I think just having that specific type of energy in your business, um, even when you’re going through hard times, like the energy that you have behind certain things can absolutely, drastically change things for you. And I think that’s just. So important because you, it’s true. You’re gonna move differently if you have a job about whether to take a client or if you don’t have a job and then you’re gonna take a client, you move so differently.

And so I think it’s like to your point of really checking in with yourself of like where you’re really at, number one, your relationship with money and then what also too you need. But I love that you said too, like I know a lot of business owners right now, some of ’em have absolutely gotten part-time jobs.

I mean, I had to even shift my own business. Um, in order to be this podcast host, I had to drastically shift my business, you know what I mean? And I think it just goes to show that there’s so many different seasons of entrepreneurship. And entrepreneurship looks different for everybody because there’s so many people that like, yeah, I’ve been in business for 10 years.

And, and a part of that, they worked a part-time job or a part of that they did full-time. ’cause sometimes you just need a break to your point, to learn, gain more skills, all those types of things. And I think sometimes when we start our business, we think that this is the end all be all. And that is never the case, like life.

Life is just, it has a funny way of moving. And I think it’s just like we need to really just enjoy the wave of being an entrepreneur. ’cause no matter what is happening, that’s what you have on your heart. Like you are a business owner. Um, and so I love that you, that you really highlighted that. ’cause I think that’s just so important of how.

Um, we create a sustainable business. ’cause even like when you said like, if you know right now that your nervous system, right? So really again, those pa parts of checking yourself, having curiosity of like, okay, or now I’ve been asking myself of what do I need right now in this season? Like, or what do I need right now in this moment is something that I’ve been asking myself instead of coming from a place of shame or judgment about how I’m feeling a certain way, or if I reacted a certain way, I asked myself, okay, cool.

What do you need right now? And I think that has really helped shape. My thought process of how I view things, but also too, like making me more in tune with myself. And I think when we are working on our money mindset, working on creating a sustainable business, how are we in tune with ourselves, with what feels good?

Because I think sometimes too, we end up taking things that may not align as well. Like I, I’m in a program and somebody did not give me good advice and I knew it wasn’t good advice and I was like, you know. I’m not gonna receive that. I love that. ’cause I know me and I know my own business and I, if I wasn’t in tune with myself, I knew that that wasn’t a line.

Not saying it wasn’t bad, it just didn’t fit me. And I think that just speaks to. To your point of just how we need to be as who we are as people first before our business. Yes. And I think it just goes back into like that detachment piece of like where we’re detached from our business, so

Denise: Yeah. Yes, yes.

On that, what you need, I, this is a shout out to anyone who’s a parent, right? Mm-hmm. Is, um, sometimes what you need in your business, you need childcare. And I knew, I knew. Actually still in my business, if I had to just take it down to just me, I, I can do most things in my business myself, but I find it really tricky to juggle being a parent and business.

And so if you’re in those early stages and you’re thinking, you know, should I hire an assistant? Should I do whatever in my business? I actually think a lot of those funds would be. Probably better spent, like what do you need? Help with it at home, because that’s often a big stressor. And it’s a big source of guilt for a lot of moms too.

So whether that’s an extra babysitter or a meal service, you know, something like that, because that. Like, putting that time and energy into your business is such a, a huge benefit for your family in the long run. And so don’t burn yourself out thinking, oh God, I have to do everything at home and in my business.

Right. If you, if you had to choose where to put that fund, I would always put it at home, right? Yeah. Yeah, I would. Because that’s gonna help you have some bandwidth to make the money in your business. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. 1000%. I think sometimes we forget, we’re like, okay, like I need to prop, prepare myself for my business.

Sometimes it’s not. The help that you need is not in your business. It’s usually what? What’s happening in your life. And I think that’s such an important, important thing. Like, I know for me, like I do a meal prep service, I don’t have time to cook. I don’t, and then I hate cooking to be quite frank. And so I was like, you know what?

I’m gonna do a meal prep and they deliver. It’s locally owned. I get to support a small business, and I have my meal prep meals for the week. And that just, again, it’s like removing, oh, sorry. And decision

Denise: fatigue,

Akua: decision fatigue. I’m like, it’s one less thing I have to worry about. You just like, yeah, exactly.

Denise: Like

Akua: I just go do my thing.

Denise: I remember reading about, um, when Obama was president and he was like, I just have five suits that I wear. I do not care. It’s one less thing to think about, and I, I actually have a chapter about this in my book, chill and Prosper, called The Keyless Life, and it’s like, what can you automate?

What things can you just let go of? So. You, we only have so much bandwidth, right? Yes. And we want to be able to spend that on money making activities in our business. So anything that’s not important. And for me, that, that consistency for me, I don’t even have to debate that. Am I gonna send out a newsletter this week?

It’s just, it’s happening no matter what. It doesn’t happen. Exactly. And I love that with food. ’cause I’m, I’m the same. I don’t care what I eat. Yeah. I’m just like, just put food in my mouth. It’s fine.

Akua: It’s, yep. And it’s healthy and there you go. But the, uh, what you said about Obama, that’s so true. ’cause I’m the same way, like a lot of these episodes, it’s, I’m rotating outfits.

It’s the same, I have my same. And it’s again, like. I don’t have time to think about it. I just put it on and go and it’s

Denise: Yep. And, and even the way you set up, right? It’s like, you know, you’ve got your headphones, like, I have all this stuff. I don’t have to think about it. I can just come in, turn on the thing.

Whereas if you’re, if so many things in your business require a lot of thinking each time, like you will kind of psych yourself out of it, right? Yeah. So make it easy for yourself because this is not a game like. Like your self, your stuff is gonna come up in everything that you do, right? Yeah. And so give yourself an out for procrastination.

Just make it as easy as possible. And actually, that’s again why I like batching and pre-scheduling, because I’m like, even if I don’t feel like it, it’s scheduled. It’s gonna happen. It’s gonna happen. Exactly.

Akua: Ugh. Yeah. I love this conversation. Conversation. Fun. Yes. This has been incredible. And so for every episode, we love to end with this question.

What does having an unbreakable business mean to you?

Denise: Oh, that’s a really interesting one. Right? Because I think the core of what I do is I wanna help people, um, make money and change the world. Mm-hmm. So that is the unbreakable part how I do that. I kind of feel like I can give myself permission to shift and change and grow over time.

And so I think that’s the key, right? Is like going. What is, what am I doing this for? Yeah. And, and that’s the thread that can continue on no matter how you do it. Whether it’s full-time or part-time over the thing. Like just having that why and it’s okay for that why to be, for you to be like, yes, just ’cause I wanna have freedom or I wanna support my family, or I wanna show up well in the world.

Like that’s okay too. So I just know I’m an entrepreneur. Forever. Right? Forever. That’s that’s not, yeah, that’s not gonna change. I, I hope I’m doing this until I die.

Akua: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I’m the same way. I’m like, I learned so much about myself this season and I was like, yeah, no, I’m a business owner at heart.

I don’t think that’s ever gonna change no matter what that looks like. No matter how it looks. But I know like to my core that is. What lights me up and, and so I totally relate there. And Denise’s conversation has been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. For those that wanna connect with you, where can we support you?

Denise: Yes, so I’m super easy to find online. So at Denise, DT is most of my social handles, so Instagram, Twitter, whatever, Facebook. Um, and then my website’s, denise dt.com. You can find out the information about my products and stuff like that, my courses. Um, and I would say too, if you wanna explore your money mindset a little bit further, go get one of my books.

So get Rich, lucky Bitch, you can get it Audible, all the all the places. Or my latest book, chill and Prosper is about creating a business that works for you. That’s easy. Yes. So thank you for having me and helping me, um, spread my message. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. Thank you so much, Denise, and we will link all of your books as well in the show notes.

So anyways, but everybody listening, until next time, thanks for tuning into Unbreakable Business. If you love today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to. To keep going and your business can be unbreakable too.

Until next time, keep building, keep growing, and stay unbreakable.