The freelancer’s guide to a sustainable and scalable business with Jamie Brindle

Akua: After today’s conversation on the Unbreakable Business Podcast, the term freelancer will have a whole new meaning. We’re joined by Jamie Brindle, who went from being a solo freelancer to mentoring thousands on how to build a business that doesn’t just survive gig to gig, but actually scales. Jamie gets real about how the landscape of freelancing has changed over the years.

How building his offer in public has led to success, the content strategy he is using to grow, and the biggest thing freelancers are missing out on that could change the trajectory of their business. If you’ve ever felt stuck in that freelancing grind, this episode is going to help you change that and show you exactly what’s possible.

Now let’s get into the episode. Welcome to Unbreakable Business, the podcast where we uncover the untold stories behind entrepreneurship. This isn’t about polished success stories. It’s about the sleepless nights unexpected roblox and unshakeable grit that builds businesses that last. Every week we sit down with entrepreneurs who faced it all, sharing raw, honest conversations about challenges, growth, and the moments that made them unbreakable.

Whether you’re just starting out or chasing your next breakthrough. This podcast is your reminder that you have the strength to keep going. Hello? Hello, Jamie. How we doing? Good. How you doing? Good. Thank you for coming by the Unbreakable Business Podcast. Super happy to have you here. I’m happy to be here.

Yeah. You have a really interesting journey as a business owner and you have now taken the word freelancer into a whole new meeting. You created the term entre lancer.

Jamie: Indeed.

Akua: Okay. So I wanna know what was going on in the industry that made you realize that freelancing just needed a whole new definition.

Jamie: I’m, I’m so excited to talk about this. It’s so There is, and for the, the people watching, there’s a bunch of creative people in this room too, so I’m interested if I see heads nodding when I’m talking about this. Yeah. But over the last. I’d say decade. The definition of freelancer, uh, has changed. It’s not what it means anymore.

Um, it’s, you know, it, it. It’s become something greater than it is. I think we’re entering, uh, by, by 2027, I think the United States alone is gonna be a majority freelance workforce. So we’re entering a new era of work where people, it’s, it’s not just, you know, gun for hire, sit at this desk, do the things I, I tell you to do, or, you know, hey, we need somebody to come in for two weeks and, you know, manage our file cabinets or, you know, run this design initiative or what have you.

Um, now freelancers. Our business owners and, and they have diverse revenue pies, and they have, you know, they, they put 50% of their day into business development. And it’s like, you know, it’s not just a, you know, a, a creative mercenary or, or, you know, it doesn’t even have to be creative. And, and that, you know, the, the lack of a.

Of a, of a definition of what freelancer has become, was starting to become an issue. Mm-hmm. And so I’m blessed to have conversations with thousands of freelancers every, every month online. And we talk a lot about, uh, you know, where this is headed and what the future of this is. And the, the term we landed on is lancer and as people that are using the tenets of freelancing to build an entrepreneurial effort.

Right. So it’s, it’s a lot easier to rent your expertise. To build that, that entrepreneurial effort than it is to go, you know. Raise seed capital or find, you know, so it’s like, it’s a lot easier to just, you know, knock a couple VSLs outta the park for your clients to fund your entrepreneurial effort.

Right. And then bring on some subcontractors and bring on, you know, yep. Than it is to go take investment from a bank. Mm-hmm. And so that’s where, that’s where we are now. And, you know, entre, lancers are probably, you know, it’s, it’s first blood drawn on this, this new era of work. It’s this workforce 3.0.

Right. Where it’s, we’re calling it the permissionless era of work where. Up until this moment, I mean, there are a couple very important things needed to happen, you know, with technology and with the way that humans interact with one another. But up until this moment, if you wanted to double your income next year or this year, uh, you’d have to ask somebody’s permission to do that, right?

Or if you wanted to chase down a new idea or a new way of doing things, you’d have to ask somebody’s permission for that. Or if you wanted to take three months off. And go, go visit a different country. You’d have to ask somebody’s permission to do that. No longer is that the case, right? It’s, it’s you now.

We now have the tools. Every single human being has the tools available to them to lead a permissionless existence in their career. And so it’s something we’re really excited about, just talking about as often as I can, but also just, you know. Leading as many people to this promised land as possible. And I think a lot of folks with nine to fives, you know, not to pit us against them or anything, but, uh, a lot of folks with nine to fives are reaching out to me on social and, and going, this is interesting.

You know, ’cause it is, it’s, there’s, I think we’re seeing entire, uh. Uh, business entities now crop up that are entirely freelancers. Yes. I mean, most of my, I came up in the video world and most of my clients were agency owners and, you know, circa five years ago, all of them started being almost entirely freelance operations because then they can flex their team in either direction.

You know, depending on the needs of, of the quarter.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: And I think we’re gonna see that start metastasizing across all industries, not just creative industries, you know? Mm-hmm. And it’s gonna be exciting to watch.

Akua: Yeah. I mean, you just summed it up so perfectly. I mean, it’s true. Like I even think of my own business journey when I first started out and it, I started off as.

A freelancer, like not really knowing what it was gonna be. But then as I grew I was like, okay, well I kinda wanna lean more into strategy and building offers and you know, then having those different multiple streams of, of revenue that I was like, oh, I’m actually like a business owner, right? And this is now the title that I wanna go to.

And I, I love that you said, shared that. ’cause usually, like I started off with like working with bigger companies that just needed a seat to fill as a freelancer. So, you know, just do the work and go home. But it turned into something so much more than that. And to your point, I think a lot of business owners are finding them in this kind of.

The space. And so I’m really interested for you, when did you realize, like, okay, I’m no longer a freelancer, like I’m an entre lancer. When did you notice that moment even for yourself?

Jamie: That’s an interesting question. I mean, obviously I didn’t, I didn’t have the words to describe it. Um, but it would probably be the moment that I first hired another freelancer to, to, you know, take something off my plate.

Mm-hmm. And I remember vividly, I was at a, I was at a, my. Girlfriend at the time now, wife and business partner. I was at her boss’s wedding in Palm Springs. Couldn’t, and I couldn’t, I, you know, so I, I couldn’t get away from it, obviously. Yeah. But client needed something delivered. It was an animation. And so we hired a, a gentleman to take care of the animation for me.

We charged accordingly. And I was standing in the hotel room, uh, you know, in, in half a suit, got the email with the first draft hit forward, sent it to the client, and I was like. I just made $8,000. Mm-hmm. You know, just for, for sending an email and, and I realized, okay, how do we, let’s pop the hood on that Yeah.

And see if we can’t replicate that phenomenon a little, a little more often. Mm-hmm. And, and what does that business. Need to look like. Right. So it’s like, okay, cool. Well now I have to start thinking about, you know, lead generation in it. Because when you’re working with subcontractors, you have, you now have two clients.

Akua: Yes. You

Jamie: know, so it’s like you, the product that you’re selling, your client, which you’re used to doing, but then your subcontractors getting, getting a service out of you as well. Yeah. You know, they didn’t, they didn’t have to land the gig, they don’t have to handle account management, they didn’t have to negotiate, they don’t have to, you know, write the contract, all that.

So, proceeding with, with all that in mind was, was fresh and exciting. Uh, for, for me. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. I love that. I think, again, to your point of just how freelancing has really shaped and how you’ve even seen it for yourself of adding somebody, like starting to build that team, starting to slowly but surely scale and just seeing how easy it is to truly, how delegation can really like start to lead to bigger revenue in your business.

And one thing I’m, you know. One of the main reasons all the time that business owners always say is like, you know, we want more time, we want more freedom. But then we, we take the leap and I don’t care what season of business that you’ve been in, like we all kind of find ourselves almost trapped in a way.

Do you kinda know what I mean? Do you find yourself sometimes with that of like, we want more freedom, but then we end up kind of trapped within our business, whether that be time or, yeah, and like of course there’s always seasons of hustle, but. Like, I’ve talked to business owners where like they feel trapped in their business.

They feel resentment in that way, where like offers aren’t aligning, sales aren’t being made. And have you ever kind of experienced that? And if so, like how have you worked through that?

Jamie: Here’s the beauty of freelancing, it’s choose your own adventure. Like if you feel trapped, like do something like change, change, change what’s going on.

Mm-hmm. Like, it’s not, again, it’s permissionless. Yeah. Like if you don’t like, if you don’t like what’s happening in your business. Take the weekend and figure out what’s going wrong and then fix it. You know, like I, I know that’s an oversimplification, obviously, but like sometimes, you know, that’s the very simple, sometimes simplification.

It’s true. Like, you know, if, if the offer that you know, you find yourself delivering for clients is something that you no longer want to do. Cool. What’s the, what do you wanna do? Yeah. What’s the new offer? Right. As long as it solves a painful, costly problem for another individual, you’re gonna do just fine.

Right? Yeah. Like, let that be your North Star, you know, start with a solution in mind, you know, reverse engineer the offer from there. Uh, and you can, you can play that trick as many times as you want throughout an entire career. Yeah. You know? So I think like anytime somebody, uh. That comes, comes to me with expressing that type of a relationship with their business.

It’s just, okay, well like, what don’t you like about it? Mm-hmm. Cool. Don’t do that anymore.

Akua: Yeah. You know, you like pointed out something of like, again, that permissionless and I think a lot of us, we have to almost, um, we have to unlearn that as business owners because we’re. So used, it’s honestly to just like a society as a whole.

Yep. Of that. We feel like we have to have permission to do things. And it’s something like where, to your point, the answer’s usually right in front of us and the answer’s always, usually pretty simple. Yeah. And so even you saying that, I’m like, oh yeah, that’s,

Jamie: that’s true. I can, but if you don’t wanna do it, don’t do it, then don’t do it.

But

Akua: we always feel like we have to do it right. We sometimes feel like, okay, like I have gone down this road, I can’t pivot, or you know, we just, we get in our head. It’s all the time. For sure. And so, like, it is an oversimplification, but like that it, it’s truly a simple, like you don’t have to make a big shift.

Yeah. You can just make little changes today that can like, have a major, major impact.

Jamie: Yeah. A big one is that I think because we are all intelligent beings, like I think, you know, and, and, and we, you know, we want to be building something and we’re always optimizing. Uh, you know, I, I think that that is a common mm-hmm.

Trap is you get in your head and you’re like, oh, I don’t know, like mm-hmm. You know, and there’s a lot of overthinking that goes on, and I’ve just found that it’s not, it’s not, I think therefore I am, it’s, I am. Therefore, I think mm-hmm. Thoughts will follow your behavior. Yes. Not the other way around.

Mm-hmm. So if you, if you want something to happen differently. Do it and your mind will catch up. Yes. So start behaving like the person that does the thing that you want to do, and the thoughts that are saying, hang on, hold on a second. Like, eventually they’re gonna be like, oh, we just don’t give a shit.

Cool. This is what we’re doing now. Mm-hmm. You know, because it’s like you, your, you thoughts are there to serve you. Yeah. And, and whether it feels like it or not, right? Like they, because sometimes they’re, they’re tyrannical, but that’s because you’ve allowed them, you’ve said. It by, by reinforcing, you’ve said, yes, I am interested in these thoughts.

You know? Yes. So if you just start behaving, like that’s not something that you wanna entertain, it’ll catch up pretty quickly.

Akua: Yeah. Like fake it till you make it. Like I’m always like, yeah. So,

Jamie: okay, cool. All right, well we’re only entertaining thoughts about this now. Got it. Cool. So I’m gonna serve those up to you now, you know?

Yeah.

Akua: And even to add to that, like even for myself, like I have like written down my goals, like for my business, and I always say like, okay, well. You are somebody that’s already had these things, like how would this, how would this type of Akua act? What I always say, like, so even with my decisions, I’m like, okay, this is how, if I had, this is how, this is how I would behave.

Yeah. So these are the decisions that I’m gonna make, and I feel just so much more confident. And it also takes that overthinking, that perfectionism where it’s like, okay, this specific type of aua. Truly does not care. We’re just gonna hop in and like, let’s just see what goes. And it just makes things so much more quicker.

Right. Um, to be able to see the results where you’re like, why didn’t I think of that before? Right. You built your offer in public, which that’s something that we need to be doing more as business owners. I think a lot of times we’re they’re building a course or whatever, a new offer. We always have the tendency just naturally to build in private.

And then when you market it. Launch your product, launch your offer, and you don’t see results. Like, you know, we can’t keep having the expectations of, uh, people like, just buy from me. But like, you have brought your people along your journey of building your product. Can you share with us like what that process looked like?

How did that go for you in terms of like ROI in your business? Like did you see a big impact building it that way? Like more so in public with like with your community?

Jamie: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. That’s, I, I don’t have a canned response for that. That’s okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s a good one. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked that question, so.

Yeah. I mean, admittedly, uh, I don’t think we sat down and had a meeting that said, let’s build this in public.

Akua: Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Jamie: So it happened a little more organically than that. Mm-hmm. Um, but, you know, post gaming it, our first product was a, uh. Was an ebook. We, we wrote an ebook for, for freelancers that are, were in year one of their business.

And it’s just kind of a, you know, people were asking us for something. Mm-hmm. And we had to get, uh, I was like, I’ll write this thing and, you know, help, help, help people out. And, and, you know, the, the tools of social media did their thing where it’s just like, you know, oh man. Like I really, you know, what’s, what angle do I want to take on proposals?

You know? Hmm. I wish I could pull. A couple hundred thousand freelancers right now for their take. Oh, I guess I can do that. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, it’s cool. Well, what do I want to, you know? And so, you know, all of that happened organically. And come launch time. Mm-hmm. Uh, that, I mean, that was, that was a, a revelatory two weeks in our business.

Um, ’cause it was our first time selling a product. We were, we’re freelancers. Like we, we were video people. Yeah. It’s like we sell videos, like we, we sell service. So it was, you know, it was fascinating watching that happen. And you know, what, what a success that first, that first book was. And then when it came time to launch the freelancing program, uh, we knew better.

Yeah. You know, we said, okay, cool. We, you know, we took a look at the, the, the successes and failures of, of the ebook launch. Mm-hmm. Um, ’cause we’re big fans of letting the data be your guide. Mm-hmm. You know, the data tells the story and Yeah. You know, we quintupled down on what worked and just scrap what didn’t.

Um, and one of the things that worked was, you know. Build in public. Mm-hmm. Get, get them involved. Yeah. Like I think when anybody gets involved in a process, they, they, you know, they take a little ownership of it and they want to see it do well. Mm-hmm. And that’s something I noticed too with our service-based business.

Like when I, like a lot of freelancers will punt the proposal and budget to email of. Usually out of fear of not wanting to deal with the budget mm-hmm. And the rejection conversation, you know. Yeah. And objections. But I found over the years that walking a client, a potential client through that process, through the proposal process, does the same thing.

Mm-hmm. Whereas now where they’re building a proposal with me, you know? Yeah. And it’s also, you know, it’s a, it’s a thinly veiled way to get me outta the fact that I’m a shitty graphic designer mm-hmm. And terrible with PowerPoint, you know, rather than make a proposal.

Akua: Yeah. Let’s

Jamie: just have a conversation.

Um, but that, that. Journey with a client, suddenly my conversion rates went up. Right. Yeah. And it’s like when I stopped, uh, sending a PDF and started just saying, you know, after the sales call, okay, I’m gonna put some thoughts together and then we’re gonna reconvene on Thursday and, and hash it out, and that’s gonna be, and so, you know, they’re gonna gimme the answers to the test.

I’m not gonna make a propo. We’re gonna do it together. Yeah. You know, um, so it was the same. It was, it was the, you know, and obviously, um. You know, it was hindsight here, but like it was the same process. It was just doing it with a product where it’s, okay, what do you guys want? What do you guys need? Let’s build, let’s build that.

What are you interested in? Let’s build that. You know, and, and then everybody’s got ownership and everybody feels excited about it.

Akua: So yeah, I love that like, again, like your audience feels the type of ownership. And when you are ready to launch, people are excited. People are like, yes, I know this person. I trust this person.

This is who I wanna invest in. Yeah. And I love too that you’ve also. Leverage that same strategy in all aspects of your business. Like even having a, a follow up call after a sales call. Like I think a lot of us naturally are just like, okay, sales call, we send the proposal and you know, they ghost and we follow up by email and we’re following up, we’re following up.

You know what I mean? And I think even just that intentionality that you’re offering really takes you far. And I think it’s those like small tweaks that business owners can make in their systems and, you know, their whole processes that can truly like propel their business forward.

Jamie: Abso, I mean, we’re, Hey.

We’re in a people business. Yeah. Like literally, if you’re, if you’re a service provider, you’re in a people business and people hire people, like it’s, it just comes down to, you know, I, I mean, automation tools are great. Like all, like everything, like everything that you can do to help is, you know, set this up.

Like, set the stage is fantastic, but at the end of the day. The person that gets the gig is gonna be the person that shows up on the call. On the call. Yes. It’s, you know, like it’s not, you know, I say it all the time. It’s the best communicator. Gets the job. Mm-hmm. Not the best practitioner. And thank God for that because I guarantee you, I’ve never been the best one up for the job.

Akua: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But

Jamie: I am deadly in a room. I know that. Like I’ve got that. If I can get, if I can get in a room with you. And endear myself to you. And we talk about your success metrics, how you’re, you know, how you’re measuring success for this project. And we talk about, you know, what are some of the obstacles we’re trying to avoid?

Have you done this before? Mm-hmm. Uh, what do you want to, what do you wanna try and replicate? Yeah. What do you wanna try to avoid this time? Have you never done this before? What are you concerned about? Let’s hash it out. Here’s a budget. Is that about what, what you got set aside for this? No. Cool. Let’s figure out a version of this idea that works for what you got.

You know, like, yeah. All of that, that happens in person. You know, you can’t, you just can’t do it on an email. No, you try. But I think a lot of people will see, you know, that at the end of the day, they’re not gonna be getting as many yeses as they would like to be getting.

Akua: Yeah. You had a TikTok post, and I’m probably gonna butcher it, but I literally saw it yesterday and I was like, oh, that’s like really good.

Where it was something along the lines of, you know, you don’t have to be at the best in something, you just have to be the best known, or something like that. Yeah. Which I feel like is kind of like similarly to what you’re talking about. Yeah. Of like. Like, I think that’s where we always feel like as business owners that we have to consume, get, we have to be better, we have to consume and, and, you know, in our skills and be the best at it.

But that’s just not necessarily the case at all. And I think that totally speaks that of like leaning more into the strength of the things that you’re good at. How can you show up? How can you make those connections?

Jamie: Yeah.

Akua: And that just reminded me of that, so,

Jamie: well fortunate, luckily for all of us social media exists.

Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. Like, it’s like this thing that like. Our forebearers did not have accessible to them. Mm-hmm. And like, I, I, I, I, I started my business bef just like, just before it says like, I, I have a little. I had a little glimpse of that world, like going door to door and strip malls asking if they needed a commercial and stuff like that.

Mm-hmm. But I mean, at the end of the day, like the premise of, I, I, I forget the piece of content you’re, you’re referencing, but I would assume that the premise there is, you know, it’s net it’s networking again, back to it being a people business. Yeah. The way like, I mean, put yourself in, you know, the clients say you’re hiring you, you person watching or, or hiring, uh, somebody.

To do something very important mm-hmm. For your job, right? Or for, for life, what have you. Yeah. Um, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a do or die situation. How do you hire that person? What’s, what’s the process you go through? The first thing you do is you go, okay, who do I know mm-hmm. That I could trust to do this for me?

Right. That’s step one. Who do I know? And if you come up empty there, what’s step two? Who, who in my circle knows somebody? Mm-hmm. Who do I know that knows somebody that, that would recommend to, to handle this for me? Mm-hmm. Only after you come up short, in both of those stages, do you then go to the internet and ask Google who, who it knows or ask LinkedIn who it knows that can solve this?

Right. Um, so, so many freelancers are competing. Over scraps on the, on, you know, the third stage. Yeah. You know, it’s already made it through the gauntlet of who do I know, who do you know? Mm-hmm. And you know, there’s the 20% leftover on, on Google or Facebook or what have you. Um, and, and they’re competing poorly for, for that 20 or 30%, you know.

Yeah. But when, when they get there. Um, you know, you, you, that’s, you do want to be, you know, you basically, you want to be the last person that they saw on LinkedIn that, that is talking about solving this problem. When it, when it comes time for them to find the solution to this problem, they go, that person that, that, that chick I saw, you know, two weeks ago was talking about this.

I’m gonna, lemme see if I can find, remember who this person? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that’s, you know, that’s what you’re optimizing for basically. Yeah. Is the first two stages there. You know, build that network and then if you are, you know, if you do still wanna play in stage three and play the social media game, it’s, you gotta, you gotta be consistently

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: Uh, talking about, you know,

Akua: what you do.

Jamie: Yeah.

Akua: Repeatedly,

Jamie: what, what problem you solve specifically. Mm-hmm. Because it’s, it is, I think that’s the other trap is, you know, a, a videographer will post, you know, their, their awesome work. And it’s, it’s not what it’s there for. Yeah. Like, you know, it’s the, I mean, social, it’s, uh, you know, any algorithm on social media exists for the single purpose of selling ads.

Right. It’s if, if it doesn’t care if you’re making videos pointing to text.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: It doesn’t care if you’re making, it doesn’t care what you’re doing mm-hmm. To help it keep people on the platform. Mm-hmm. And if you’re making content for your clients, that is so valuable that they will either share it with somebody else to bring them onto the platform to sell ads to.

Mm-hmm. Or save it. To come back to the platform to continue being sold ads to mm-hmm. The algorithm’s gonna love you.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: Now, what does your cool thing that you did last weekend, how do, who’s gonna save or share that? Yeah. Nobody, right? That doesn’t play the game of social media. So you’ve gotta play the game and think, you know, what, what piece of content, uh, can I be, could I put out today?

That one of my clients would save or share.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: Um, and then play that game every day.

Akua: You know, one thing, um, in terms of content, right now, what I’m, I’m seeing on social is. Just a lot of the conversations, you know, it, it’s no longer the same anymore of like three tips to help you with X, Y, Z, right? Like I think we’ve had to be a lot more just deeper, more innovative, more creative.

And I think, I know a lot of people are, are kind of burned out with, with socials and I, in terms of you and your content strategy, what have you been seeing success with, especially this year that’s like really like driven revenue in your business?

Jamie: Yeah. Um, I mean, we think of our content the same way that you would think of a sales funnel, top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom funnel.

Mm-hmm. Right. So it’s like, it’s is this, are we going for reach with this piece of content? Mm-hmm. Are we nurturing with this piece of content or are we selling with this piece of content? Mm-hmm. And we enter seasons where it’s like, we gotta beef up the, we gotta restock the, you know, the audiences is like, we’re going full, full reach for the next three months.

And, and if you’re optimizing for reach. It’s, it’s entertainment, right? It’s you’ve, you’ve gotta go broad, um, you know, put fi figure out how to convey the information in a skit. Get really clever with your hooks, right? Like, these people assume these people have no idea who you are and you’ve gotta hijack their attention.

Yeah. With, with something, you got two seconds to make it work and mm-hmm. You know, we’ve always been very value driven. Like I, I joked about, um. I had a, a podcast with the Wall Street Journal and they were very anti new media Yeah. Over there. And, uh, and so they were, you know, poo-pooing, TikTok, and I was like, oh, we try to be the, the broccoli of TikTok.

You know, it’s just like there’s a lot of junk food and, and we want to, we want to, you know, help people. If, if, hey, if you’re only gonna see one piece of content, I’m gonna try and help your business with that one. You know? So like that again, saves and shares. Like, that’s, that’s a, that’s a guiding principle.

But in terms of like format, like. If you’re going for reach and you’re going for like new follows, optimize for, you know, a broader, like entertain. Mm-hmm. And, and you know, make sure the hook is on point, but entertain, and then beyond that, then you can get into the, let’s do a, you know, here are the four things I’d change if I was solving this problem.

You know? Yeah.

Akua: And so

Jamie: you start nurturing there where it’s like you can actually get in and, and change a business with, you know, the right eight pieces of content.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: Um, and once you do that, you know it like. If you’ve got something to sell ’em, you know? Mm-hmm. It’s like, yeah, for sure. I mean, I watched eight fucking tiktoks and, and this guy, you know, increased my revenue by 20%.

Yeah. So, yeah. Whatever you got, like, let’s, let’s go to the next thing. What’s behind the pay gate?

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: So, yeah, I, I would say approach it like that. Like it’s okay. What. You know, in, in buckets it’s like, what is this bucket trying to do? What is this bucket trying to do? And what is this bucket trying to do?

Yeah. And then it just goes back to what I said earlier is you let the content, or let the data be your guide.

Akua: Yeah. Where,

Jamie: you know, when we first started on Instagram, I was like, I, my little sister, I, I posted my first. Post on Instagram and my little sister texted me and said, Hey Jamie, you can’t put the link in the post.

You have to put link in bio until,

Akua: oh, go there. It was

Jamie: like total rookie, right? Mm-hmm. And I spent the first like three months just like throwing shit against the wall. And then, but I would, I would store all of the analytics on a spreadsheet, and then at the end of three months, I took the top 25 best performers and I made five versions of each.

And then three months later we had a hundred thousand followers on Instagram.

Akua: Mm. I love that. I love that you literally gave like laid out experimentation with social, because that’s something I think a lot of business owners, I mean many of us are on there now, not necessarily. We use it as like way like, well, I have to keep showing up.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it’s a mandatory thing. And I love that you are like, no, like the data is what tells the story. I’m gonna lean in with curiosity and like actually figure out, okay, what’s performing well and what’s not. Yeah. And that’s the thing with social is, um, even when you take that time, even within those three months and be consistent and determine whatever, like whatever your consistency looks like, it can truly like pay off for you.

And I love that you like broke down of like, okay, like we did this for a certain amount of time, took like took the top 25 posts and let made five versions of that and let’s see what happens. It grew, grew your business.

Jamie: I would, I would contend that anybody that did that would see success. Like, I don’t, I mean, obviously to varying degrees.

Yeah. But it, I it is literally like that cut and dry. Yeah. And, uh, that’s our, we recently shut down our video business and we opened up a social media, uh, strategy firm, and we’re doing B2B. Social strategy. Yeah. And we’re just, that’s like, like it’s that easy. Like, it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a piece of cake offer.

Yeah. ’cause it’s just like, cool, we’ll make some con and like, and you, you know, we, we, you know, get our, uh, we kind of deputize our clients to the effort. Like, you know, hey, you know, like you’re not gonna see the needle move. Uh, on any of this for three months. Mm-hmm. But we will, yeah. Like, just like we’re, we’re collecting very important information.

Just let us do our thing for three months. Mm-hmm. And then next quarter we’re pulling back the arrow. Next quarter we get to, we get to fire. Yeah. You know, it hasn’t not worked yet. Yeah. Like, it’s literally like, it’s just, I mean, why wouldn’t it, you know? Mm-hmm. It’s, it’s not, I mean, all these social, uh.

Networks want you to succeed. They’re, they’re, they’re rooting for you. Yeah. You know, it’s like they’re, they’re trying, they’re giving you everything it can. Like, I mean, Instagram’s giving you new analytics every week. Yeah. You know, now, now you can see the exact moment in the video when somebody hit like mm-hmm.

Like, that was the newest thing that came out, you know, uh, a couple weeks ago, like. It’s cool, like cool where wherever the likes go, those are our new hooks. Yeah. That’s, that’s the next batch, right? Like so you just, it’s just a, it’s a game of, of data collection and, um, you know, you’re, and just putting raffle tickets in the hat.

Honestly, the more you put in, the more likely you are to, to get your number called.

Akua: Yeah. And that consistency piece is what’s gonna really. Like push you forward. Yeah. And so for you, how, um, what systems are you having, like, like where you’re able to establish that consistency? I think that’s a main thing a lot for business owners, freelancers, that consistency piece.

Because we, some, some people don’t make social a priority. Where like, where they’re able, where they’re wanting to really, truly experiment like that. Like how have you established that consistency?

Jamie: That’s interesting. I mean, yeah. First if you’re not making it a priority, you really should. Like, I know, like, I don’t, I hate to be that guy, but like, you really should be.

Yeah. Like, it’s just such a. So many people have like, asked me that question. It’s like, do I need to be on social? It’s like, no, you don’t need to be on social. Mm-hmm. But like, it’s like running with a weight vest. Yeah. Like, it’s such a, it’s such an asset. Yeah. Like especially if you use it in the way that we’re talking about.

Mm-hmm. You know? Um, but yeah, I mean, I think with like anything else, you know, without a goal, you can’t score. So set your goal for. You know, the next three months and, you know, maybe a long term next six month goal. Um, and, you know, make it something, make it attainable. But like, you know, okay, every morning I’m supposed to wake up and do this because I’m trying to achieve this, you know, data set by three months from now.

Mm-hmm. You know, um, you know, and, and set your lead in lag indicators, you know? Yeah. It’s like your lead indicators. It’s what. What input did I, did I do each day? Each each week? Check, check, check. That’s Jerry Seinfeld with the calendar, right? He had to sit down and, and write for, what was it, 15 minutes every day or something.

And he’d put an X on the calendar. Yeah. The next day. So those are your lead indicators, and then lag indicators is what happened? What came out the other side of the machine, you know? Did the thing that I thought would happen happen?

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: No. Okay. Well, lemme go back to what my input was. Where, where, where did I go wrong?

Like what, what, what worked, what didn’t? What needs to be swapped out for next week? Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. And that’s like, that’s, I’m talking about a 15 minute process here. Yeah. You know, like, this isn’t like a, you gotta make time for this. It’s like, no, like, sit down and have this 15 minute week, you know, meeting with yourself each week.

And then in terms of creating the content. You know, uh, batch components of it.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: Right. Pre-production, production, post-production where you just, you know, on, on Mondays you write. Mm-hmm. On Tuesdays, you edit what you wrote. On Wednesdays, go film it or, or turn it into a carousel.

Akua: Yeah. And on

Jamie: Thursdays edit it, spruce it up and on Fridays, throw it on the scheduling app.

Akua: Be like, it’s, yeah. It’s that, it’s not as that complicated. And I know people who’d like, that’s literally their batch week. Like they have one week outta the month where that is all they do. And it’s just batch the content and then it’s scheduled. And like, however people, however it works for other people.

But people are like, okay, no, I have batch week. So like they are preparing

Jamie: respect. Yeah.

Akua: Everything for this. Specific week because it’s a heavy week. Because it’s a heavy week. They won’t take any other meetings. Yeah. Nothing. It’s just batch week, that whole week to get, to get everything up and running.

Yeah. So I think it just goes to like, whatever works for you, but just being able to establish that consistency. You could do

Jamie: batch week or you could do that for an hour and a half day.

Akua: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jamie: And, and you will amass. Twice as much as batch week got, if you do that every day for, you know, like, yeah.

Like, it’s just, you’ll get better at it, you’ll get quicker, you know? And then the other thing is that you’re amassing, you’re, you’re building a library of assets, like do you think that. The 25 viral videos that I do. Do you think I never posted them again? Like of those, those things have Oh, you’re repurposing?

Yes. Oh, oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Like there’s, there’s one video that I’ve probably posted 45 times times. You’re like, it’s

Akua: bound to go viral again. Yeah. It’s,

Jamie: it’s every time. Yeah. It’s good for a million views, you know? Yeah. It’s like I, it just speaks the language of social media. It just taps in somehow and like.

Cool. We’re gonna post that as often as possible, you know, and like the more, again, raffle takes than a hat, the more you do that, the more winners you get. Yeah. Uh, you know, you stack ’em up and then you just put those on the calendar, you know, sprinkle those in because you still wanna be running your tests on new content.

And yeah, you still wanna be showing up for your audience and addressing pro new problems that they have, but like, um. But yeah, I mean, over time, I mean, we’ve probably got a hundred, uh, viral videos, you know, that just, and it’s every couple days one of ’em goes up. Yeah. You know, and just, just keep it going.

Akua: Yeah. One thing obviously too, like as you’re even collecting all that data, like putting in that work into your social, like you’re still building community, you’re still building like that is, I think the biggest piece is that you’re building a community. And so for you, um, especially as we talked about earlier, like you building your offer in public, but as like even with your social, what is something that your community.

Has has given you, oh

Jamie: my gosh. Like, like I, it’s, it’s incredible the, the conversations that I have with people, like for, so I think that’s what it is for me. It’s the, it’s the one-on-one conversations that I’ve had with freelancers where they share, you know, their story. They, they share what got them into it.

They share what’s working for them, and they share what’s really. Bothering. I get a lot of that. It’s and, and none of them are defeatists. Mm-hmm. That’s what I love about freelancers is like, they’re all like, I’m gonna figure this out. Like I know it. I would just love it if you could help me get there a little quicker than I could on my own.

Yeah. You know? And so we hash it out. I love having those strategy sessions. Um, with, with folks and then, and that’s a pretty much the entire reason why we did the freelancing program was to get these people in a room together.

Akua: Yeah. Like I,

Jamie: I’d always tell when people, somebody says, yeah, I can’t afford, you know, getting in there.

I’m like, there’s nothing in, there’s nothing on the other side of that. That I’m not posting for free on YouTube right now. It’s purely a community. Yeah. You know, it’s like, and it costs money ’cause we gotta pay people to run it. Mm-hmm. Like, um, but it’s a place where people congregate and share insights.

Yeah. Right. And ask questions. Yeah. And, and I, it’s freelancers are, geez man, like, it’s like, it is just cool to see ’em work for one another. So. It’s, I’m very excited. I mean, like I said, we’re, we’re taking over. It’s our time. Yes. Like we’re gonna be the majority of the workforce in a year or two. You know what?

Yeah. And, uh, and not, not a lot of people are talking to us and so we That’s great. We get to figure it out on our own, you know? Yeah. Which is what we’ve always done anyways.

Akua: And as things are evolving for freelancers and like, especially with the workforce changing, what is one like major opportunity that you think freelancers are missing out on right now?

Jamie: Major opportunity that freelancers are missing out on right now? Um, I. I, I think this is, uh, this is tricky territory. Okay. Uh, it is the only time, the only topic that I will post on the internet and get pushback from. Okay. Uh, get some angry dms about, but ai, I mean, and I know it’s so, I know, I know. It’s, I love

Akua: everybody’s like.

Everybody’s like giving a look like mm-hmm. It’s like,

Jamie: because I get it, like I get that people are doing, you know, because creatives specifically are Mm. Like, it is like, there’s, there’s a lot of consternation there. Yeah. And people are doing some nefarious things, particularly to the creative community with ai.

Mm-hmm. Get it, like, like register that, but it’s here. Yeah. And people do nefarious, terrible, horrific things with the internet. But I use the internet to do really great things. And everybody in this room does too.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: You know, so it’s like you are, just because somebody else is abusing AI doesn’t mean that you don’t get to wield it for good.

Mm-hmm. You know, and, and wield it for the betterment of your business and for the betterment of, of the clients that you work with. So that’s the, the caveat there. But AI’s itself, you know, is like literally anybody who’s come at me with an argument for why AI is, you know, going to destroy their business.

Within three dms, I’ve got them excited about how they’re gonna use AI to make more money than they’ve ever made. Mm-hmm. Because it’s like any, you know, any business owner, the same guy that, uh, you know, when Photoshop first came out, a lot of graphic designers were like, shit, that’s it. Mm-hmm. Any, and now any, any small business owner can just pop a floppy disc in a computer and do make the poster.

Mm-hmm. And they don’t need me anymore. Mm-hmm. You know? Turns out we still do the, the, the same small business owner that didn’t wanna learn how to paint. Yeah. Doesn’t wanna learn how to use Photoshop.

Akua: Yeah. You

Jamie: know, and, and I’ve had this conversation over at chat GPT ’cause they’re like, well it’s as simple as having a conversation.

It’s like you think, you know, directing an actor is as simple as having a conversation. Do you think that you’re gonna be better at it than Quentin Tarantino? Do you think you’re gonna get a better performance outta that actor? Yeah, right. It’s, it all comes down to the input. It all comes down to the person.

Um, you know, I, I played out a scenario on, uh, threads the other day where it’s like, you know, okay, client fires, graphic designer. I’m gonna figure, I’m gonna figure out graphic design, graphic designer says, or I’m gonna figure out. Chet pt, graphic designer says. Cool. Are you gonna do it on, on your own?

’cause that’s, you get, I got some courses I can send you. A client says, no, no, I’m gonna hire somebody who, who knows how to write good prompts. Okay, cool. Who are you looking for? Well, somebody who’s probably well versed in Chachi PT and like really understands graphic design. Mm-hmm. Graphic designer. Cool.

Hire me back. I got you. Like literally like that’s the way it’s going to work. It’s gonna play out that way across every creative service. The problem is that the people that had a adverse reaction to AI and didn’t. Get in it, are gonna have a really tough couple of years. Um, and then they’re gonna have some series catching up to do.

Mm-hmm. And so, you know, my, my hope is that if I keep having conversations like this about ai mm-hmm. I can convert many more to just like, get in there, like get in there and figure it out. ’cause like what’s gonna happen is you can 10 x your output. Hmm. Right. Like for, and everybody’s gonna win. You’re, you’re gonna be able to do 10 times as much work, and you’re going to be doing 70% of what you normally do, and you’re gonna be charging three times what you normally charge.

Yes. And your client is gonna be thrilled about it because they’re gonna be getting 10 times the work and only have to charge, pay three times. You know, um, everybody wins. Yeah. And that’s the way it’s gonna play out. So it’s just a matter of, of figuring out what that looks like for your offer.

Akua: Yeah. Yes. I, I still feel like, I think this is when we’re using ai, like in terms of like saving time automations, but I still think we’re not utilizing it enough where like, where you’re able to really make that impact where it’s like able to help generate revenue.

What are some ways that business owners can start leveraging AI in that way?

Jamie: I mean, there’s so many ways. It’s, there’s a couple different like. Like ways to treat it. Right? Because there’s like ai, I think like probably the biggest, like the real coup is to treat AI like your co CEO. Mm-hmm. Right? Because it’s like, you could read, you know, that stack of books in Ty Lopez’s garage, you know, you could, you could read that stack of books or you could just ask AI.

Uh, to, to, hey, skim ’em over the next 20 seconds. And here’s the thing I’m solving for, and I need you to, I need you to act like a seven figure analyst who’s read these seven books, who’s worked with these three companies to this effect, and I need you to gimme some real inside baseball. Mm-hmm. Uh, suggestions.

Here. Here’s the problem. Like, like literally this is the conversation. You, you lay it all out. Yeah. Um, you know, and, and, and you, you workshop. What your business is gonna look like three months from now with ai. Right. And you just keep, you know, yes. Ending it, you know, like, okay, great. How do I, how do I use you to do this better?

Mm-hmm. Or try this, right. Have, okay, what tools are available to me? Right. Blah, blah, blah. So I think that’s the first big use case for AI is to, is to use it as, it’s as if it were your co CEO. Yeah. You’ll, you’ll. Be, uh, pleasantly surprised at how, uh, illuminating that is. And then I think the second use case is clean up any spot in your, uh, process where you’re the bottleneck.

Mm-hmm. Suddenly, I mean, and obviously where we HoneyBook is really good at

Akua: that. Yes.

Jamie: It’s like, I, I, I’ve made many a reel on that. It’s just like. Any place where, uh, you know, your business relies on you to be sitting in front of a desk doing busy work.

Akua: Yeah.

Jamie: That gets, that gets the ax real quick. Right?

Find, find the right app to handle that specific thing and. Take, take, take it off your list, your to-do list for, you know, free you up to do the, to do the big stuff that you know only you can do.

Akua: Yes. I think with both of those, like you can truly become a powerhouse of a business owner. And we had a, a guest come on a couple months ago, um, AI expert, and she talked about even two leveraging AI for like buyer psychology, like.

Determining buying patterns and stuff like that, which was big

Jamie: time.

Akua: That was eyeopening for me with, it’s incredible as I’m like building my new offer and I was like, oh my gosh, I’m way off than what I originally thought it was. And that data has been just amazing and been like that foundation almost that that anchor for me as I’m like building everything out.

It’s just getting a better understanding of my ICP and their patterns and like how they understand things. And so like again, to your point of how. You can leverage it much so as that, that CEO, it really just helps give you that confidence as a business owner. So

Jamie: every, it’s amazing at pattern recognition and, and data, data analysis.

And so it’s like when we talk about letting the data be your guide and all the data you’re collecting on what’s working and what’s not, dump, dump that right into chat GBT. Yeah. And say, you know, I mean literally we’re, we just this week opened the freelancing program for the first time this year as a subscription model and I, I literally took.

The across. I think this, we’ve had five or six launches of this so far. I took every best performing ad, every best performing story post every best performing feed post, and I gave it all to chat GBT, and I said, tell me what the threat of commonality across all of these is. Give me a list of like seven things.

Why are these working when these other 400 pieces of content didn’t work to promote this thing? Right. Got a great, a great document outta that. Yeah. And then it’s Okay. Cool. Now, what do I do with this information? Right? If you’re, if you’re a, you know, an elite, uh, you know, marketer, what, what’s, what’s your first look here?

Mm-hmm. And it gave me some really cool, you know, cool, interesting suggestions. And then we have a big meeting about that, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, it’s, that’s, that’s what it looks like. Yeah. In the real world.

Akua: Yeah. Ugh. I’ve loved this conversation so much. I feel like we’ve talked about everything. I could talk to you forever.

Um, we’ll

Jamie: just keep going. We’ll, I know we’ll just keep going,

Akua: but I’m definitely gonna, we’re gonna do a quick rapid fire.

Jamie: Okay. Cool.

Akua: Are you ready? Let’s do

Jamie: this. Gonna

Akua: keep it like at the top of your head. Don’t overthink it. Oh boy. Give me the, your first thing that comes to mind. Biggest mistake you see freelancers make over and over again.

Jamie: Not getting specific enough about their offer.

Akua: Mm. Okay. Okay. The hardest, no. You had to give as a freelancer.

Jamie: Hardest? No, I had to give as a freelancer, um, I don’t give many nos. Oh, okay. Yeah. I know. I like, I try to always find a way to say yes and like, but like find the middle ground, find the compromise.

Akua: Okay. Okay.

Jamie: Yeah. But you can say no as a freelancer. That’s, that’s the, like you

Akua: can,

Jamie: that’s the beauty of it. Yeah.

Akua: Yeah. Okay. The biggest misconception people have about you

Jamie: that I am a master at all of this. I’m just a guy who’s talking about it all the way. I just happen to be the one that’s talking about it.

Yeah. I’d say that, and also, unfortunately, I get, uh, roped in with some of the, uh, the sales bros online that I, I, I actively try to keep myself at a

Akua: Did you hear he’s not a sales bro. I’m just kidding. Kidding. Sales bro.

Jamie: That’s those guys, man,

Akua: you hear, you heard it first in the Your Break My Business podcast.

No, I, I love that though. I think like you even just talking about how you’re. Like, you’re still figuring it out. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that’s like, I love that. I love hearing when experts are like, look, I’m, I’m on the same boat as you. Okay. We go. Yeah. I’m,

Jamie: I’m the anti multimillion dollar sales coach.

Yeah. Yeah.

Akua: You, it’s like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna figure it out together. Yeah. And I, I love that. I, I really do. Okay. The most un unglamorous truth about freelancing.

Jamie: Most unglamorous Truth about freelancing, gosh, it was so glamorous. You can take two 30 naps on a Wednesday. Yeah. Uh, you do whatever you want.

Um, I would say here’s an interesting unglamorous. Truth is, uh, people that, that don’t get it, that’s the thing. That’s a real thing. Yes.

Akua: Mm-hmm.

Jamie: Um, until it starts really working. And then all your friends and family are like, let me talk to you about this freelancing thing.

Akua: And then they’re like, well, haven’t I?

Business idea? Let’s, let’s, oh my gosh. I’m like, I’m tired. Oh my gosh. Like I’m trying to, no, all the time.

Jamie: All the time. Um, yes, but, but yeah, it is like when you’re getting started, a lot of people. Think that, and you know, people that love you, that are concerned for you, and like, so you, you want to be, you know, gentle with that, but a lot of people won’t get it.

Yeah. And, and so you have to contend with, you know, already it takes a lot of courage to do something like this. Mm-hmm. Um, and it doesn’t help when like, your trusted loved ones are like, maybe you should not do this. You know? So, and, and you feel, you just gotta kind of put the blinders on and just plow through that phase?

Akua: Yes. Okay. One decision that completely changed your business.

Jamie: Uh, starting an Instagram account.

Akua: Okay. Okay. If you had to start from zero tomorrow, what’s the first thing you do?

Jamie: I actually recently had to do that because we, we shut down our business and, and started a new one. Mm-hmm. Um, and I would say I would get, I would pick a very expensive problem and make a solution to it.

Mm. Because if you do that, everything else just kinda takes care of itself. Like I, I mean, like, if you’ve chosen a specific enough expensive problem. You know exactly where to go to get your leads. And then sales is as simple as like sliding the solution in front of the person with that problem.

Akua: Yes.

Jamie: Oh, and because it’s so expensive, you get to charge for

Akua: it.

Yes. Oh, I have loved this. This has been fun. Every episode we love to end with this question is, what does having an unbreakable business mean to you?

Jamie: Oh gosh. What does having an unbreakable business mean? I would say it means having built something that is scalable and sustainable. Mm-hmm. Scalable meaning.

Uh, if this thing had to grow beyond you, it could, doesn’t mean it has to, but you’ve built it in a way where it could, and sustainable meaning, are you gonna be happy doing this for a while? Yes. Right. Are you, are you gonna be able to chill? Like, are you gonna be able to, are you gonna enjoy this? Is this something that you, like?

If you, if you can lock those two in, I think you. You’re set, you’re gonna have a pretty good experience with this whole freelancing thing.

Akua: Yes. I love that both, both of them. Like, do you love what you do? But then also I always think of, I remember, uh, always remind myself, um, we had a previous guest, Shey Cochran, she shared this of like, you’re building, like build the business that you want for tomorrow.

Like they want five years from now, 10 years from now. And I think that’s like such a great. Great reminder with like what you just said of like, what do you want your future to look like? And be making sure that you’re building towards that. So

Jamie: I love that. Yeah, I love that. ’cause the decisions you gotta make for that business are very different than the ones that you’re probably making right now.

Akua: Right now. Exactly. Oh my gosh, this has been so fun. I have loved this conversation. You’re like, let’s keep it going. Let’s just keep it going. Shut the lights off. We’ll just keep chatting in the parking lot. Here we go. We’ll just keep going. Um, for those that wanna connect with you, where can we find you?

Where can we tap in? Uh, all

Jamie: the places. All the places, yeah. Just find me, I mean it send me a DM on Instagram or on on LinkedIn. Um, the Jamie, Brendan on Instagram. Jamie, Brendan on LinkedIn. That’s probably the, the, the, the quickest, the most direct path to, to me. Yes. Um, and, uh, I’ll, I’ll see you guys there if you can’t tell.

I like nerding out about this stuff, so, so, we’ll, we’ll have a lengthy conversation, I can assure you.

Akua: Yes. Well, Jamie, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been like, the information has been so valuable. I’m super inspired. I’m like, I got, I got work to do. We gotta go. But, um, thank you so much for being here.

Really, really appreciate it. Yes. And for everybody tuning in. Until next time. Thanks for tuning into Unbreakable Business. If you love today’s episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone who needs a little extra inspiration. Remember, no matter what life throws your way, you have the power to keep going and your business can be unbreakable too.

Until next time, keep building. Keep growing, and stay unbreakable.