Building an authentic business that supports your mental health with Ashlyn Carter

Akua: Welcome back to another episode of the independent business podcast. And today you are in for a treat. Ashlyn Carter, the founder and CEO of Ashlyn writes a copywriting business for creative entrepreneurs joins us on the show. And we talk about everything Ashlyn shares with us, her incredible journey of leaving her corporate job to start her own business, how she manages her mental health, these amazing pricing strategy tips.

And how to be more confident in our story and copywriting. This episode is jam packed with so many nuggets that every business owner needs to hear. Now let’s get into the episode.

Before we dive in, please note that this episode contains a brief conversation about eating disorders. If you are not in a place to listen, we totally understand and encourage you to skip today’s episode. Hey everyone. This is your host Akua Konadu and you’re listening to the Independent Business Podcast.

More people than ever are working for themselves and building profitable businesses in the process. So on this show, I get to sit down with some of the most influential authors, entrepreneurs, and creators to break down the science of self made success so that you can achieve it too.

Ashlyn: Hello. Hello, Ashlyn. How are you doing? I’m so good. I’m pumped to talk to you. You’re welcome. 

Akua: I’m pumped for you to be here. I haven’t seen you since January at Laley’s conference, the creative educator conference, and let me tell you, you brought the house down. Okay. I’m not even, I’m not even going to die.

It was, it was so, so good. So impactful. So I’m just really excited for you just to be here on the show and just, let’s just talk about it. Like just, 

Ashlyn: I love it. Well, and thank you for that. Cause I wrote that like on the plane coming over and I know like right before we hit record, we were talking like sometimes the best stuff does come from this a little bit.

Like I didn’t work on that talk for months. I wrote from a place of like, this is what I’m seeing. This is what’s going on. And, um, so I’m glad it was helpful, but hopefully today can be like that too. So, 

Akua: yeah, absolutely. You know, one raw, like, yes, absolutely. And I think. That is something that I love about you.

And like, fun fact, like I literally purchased your course when I first became an entrepreneur. I’m still in your copywriting course. Yeah. Like I, and I’m on, I’m in your newsletter and I read them often because you’re just so relatable, so fun. And it is, it’s truly like the raw, like you really just don’t shy away from like whatever seasons of life that you’re in, which I love.

And I want to kind of take it back a little bit because I’m so interested to learn just more about you and Ashlyn and, you know, you kind of had a very interesting experience. Leaving corporate into starting your business. So what did that exactly look like? Because, you know, there’s, we talked, there’s like a whole bunch of layoffs right now in the tech industry.

Like there are people like it’s difficult. And there are people who are like, I don’t know what to do next. Or there are people in corporate right now. Currently. I mean, there’s like 51 percent of adults, according to our Harris poll, they have considered leaving their job to go full time. So think, I just want to know about you when you were in that moment, what did that look like for you?

Describe us, walk us through that journey. 

Ashlyn: Okay. I love it. And I think. There’s, I love that there’s probably just as many people who would argue that you should be in corporate and like build up your freelance Portfolio before taking the job as there are people that would be like, nope, push out of the nest Like that’s the way to build it.

I was a little bit more towards the other side I said I worked with journalism major like never changed my major once knew I wanted to work in some sort of Writing marketing capacity and so I was in corporate actually adored corporate I loved it. It taught me so much. It sharpened me. It was, I was in Atlanta and so the brands I worked on were Atlanta brands, you know, Chick fil a Delta airlines loved it.

I, though in my spare time, all my spare time, I did wedding calligraphy, just as like a relief from typing. And so. I would go to meetups, rising tide meetups actually in Atlanta. And this is like 2016 and I got this little taste of like, hold the phone. These people work for themselves and his salary, like what?

And so that was weird. And then I started, I don’t even know if I’ve ever said this before. I would go. To the meetups and like, like, say to my company, like, it’s a marketing meet. Like, I’m going to go learn about marketing for my job. Well, 100 percent technically true. I would be there being like, wow. Like, let me ask, could I ever do something like this?

So it got that like taste. I don’t know. It just kind of lit a fire in me. And so I started also accepting freelance writing work, writing for different websites, writing for different content marketing. Like I knew I could write, I didn’t really know what capacity I could ever have a business in, but I just knew I could probably make some simple middle income, but I didn’t get pushed out of the nest until I, my husband proposed and it was like one more stressful thing.

I did a terrible thing and started counting calories as a way to like hold Hold something in control in my hand because there were so many unknowns in where we were gonna live what my job was gonna be like I was stressed to the max and so I Totally out of left field developed an eating disorder. We got married It was after that my mother in law looked at me She was like this is not gonna work like in my parents, too I ended up going into partial hospitalization for three months and it was in there that I was like, okay Corporate was great.

Doesn’t serve me right now. I don’t want to work in food marketing. Food has like been a thing right now. Lately, I got to do something. And so it pushed me. I would have never left corporate. I was so safe. I was so comfortable. It worked. Did I, was I obsessed? No, but it worked, but it was, I got pushed out of the nest.

And so I had to like build my wings on the way down. And I, I think my detraction, my business really hit about the second month I was on my own and I realized, okay, there’s a gap in the market. It happens to be Ashland sized and I can fill that. And so that’s, I tell people all the time, like, fine, there is like a silhouette cutout of you in the market that you need to go fill and find that.

Akua: Oh my gosh, that is just so powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Honestly, thank you. And two, it’s so interesting how you said you didn’t have a lot of control. So this was the main thing that you can control. And so it’s something that just like inadvertently developed. And so even too, I think I just want to highlight just with how.

You honestly, it’s really humbling. I feel like experience to really be like, Hey, like I’m needing help. And so like I also too came out of desperation for my own business and I had I didn’t have a paycheck. Like I literally had one paycheck left before I was gonna be like moving back in with my mom and I was like I’m either gonna, yep, same thing.

You just gotta build it. Right. This one baby moved. Yep. And it’s like you come from a certain type of desperation no matter what that looks like. Where it’s like you’re more like, yes, you’re going through something that’s very difficult, but it’s like you’re more fearless, you’re more Yes. Innovative. Like you just move so differently like Yeah, you like I got, I ain’t got nothing to lose.

No. So, yeah. Yeah. It’s just 

Ashlyn: nothing. Nothing to lose. Like I lit, I can’t go back. That was not it. Mm-Hmm. . I like anxiety, depression had me. So crippled, the Lord rescued me from that. I was like, I cannot go back. So I’ve got to figure out like you’re hungry to figure out the next thing. And it just, it’s yeah, I would do it weirdly.

I would do it again because it like, not really, I don’t want to go through it all, but like, I’m glad that that’s my story. Cause I, I wouldn’t, like I said, I would not have done it. I don’t think. 

Akua: Yeah, and I think another thing that you said was really interesting too that you said earlier was like, okay I felt comfortable like you were comfortable in your corporate But at the same time it’s really interesting the things that we get we get comfortable with of like our depression our anxiety Like those types of things they may not be the best thing but it’s so you’re comfortable in it to where like You’re more afraid of what the unknown will look like to where you’re more willing to sit within that than actually just taking the step forward but I love how like your testament of like You This sucked so bad, but like I would, I would go through it again to be able to have the life in the business that I have now.

And so I just want to, I just want to speak truth to that. And just like, like truly the, the business that you have built is just phenomenal. And the thousands of entrepreneurs that you have impacted is just absolutely amazing. And I think it just, again, shows that entrepreneurship is not easy. And like, we have also our lives too, that we have to navigate at the same time as building our business.

So I really appreciate you highlighting that. One thing I also love that you said was like, this is my story. This is. My story. And that’s the thing is like, you weave that so beautifully into your copy. Like anything, no matter what, like, I’ll look at your stuff. I’m like, how did you like find these different, like the most random type of stories.

But I think like the way that you do it is just so relatable. And so what do you have to say to business owners who were like, Hey, like, I want to share these aspects of my life. You know what I mean? But I don’t, I don’t know what that looks like for me. Like how, for you, how did you feel more comfortable?

How did you navigate that? 

Ashlyn: Yes. Okay. I wrote down a couple of things. Cause Studying this is fascinating to me. And I don’t buy in, I don’t market to Gen Z. I don’t buy into like all the Gen Z hype. Like, but I think watching that, that generation kind of, Like any generation, they like kind of set the new standard.

So 47 percent of millennials think that brands lie. 56 percent of Gen Z think brands lie. So Gen Z, everybody’s hungry. Everybody thinks our marketers out to separate a fool from their money. Right? So I think the more like. The more you can show up and be honest, especially when everything’s like we’ve got AI influencers out there now, like especially if you can be the disruptor against that, it’s going to be interesting and it’s going to be authentic.

And I just, I think it’s so necessary. So the way I got more comfortable with it, you kind of like, I’m a big fan of testing my ideas in a safe space. So like with an email list or on stories, like just testing in groups, I’ll say something on a call with our members. And like, if the chat goes wild, then I’m like, okay, or in a mastermind community where like I’m with peers and we’re sharing stuff.

So I’m, that’s like one thing I always do is I test a lot of. Material before it ever kind of goes public. And so I want people to know, like, find your safe spaces and do that. I also, another principle I kind of live by is like, maybe it was a, I’m sure it was like Brene Brown or somebody said something about like waiting until your.

Your wounds kind of scar over a little bit. I do like, it’s this tension between documenting the process in real time is really helpful for people, but I do. Want to always be like a little bit ahead because you have to be, I don’t know, you don’t want to have to have a trigger warning on everything. And like, I think it can be helpful for you to, yeah, whenever I’m sharing things, I try to make sure I’m one, even just one step, two steps ahead when I’m sharing it.

So those are two principles. Maybe that help, I would tell somebody that’s wanting to, Be a little more open there’s never been a better time to like people ask me that all the time like I I want to sound like myself I’m, not sure I can there’s literally never been a better time like god forbid the instagram world of five years ago when we had These like perfect flat lays and everything was like like that is not the internet right now Run with that like you haven’t like The internet is fun and messy again and like unhinged on Instagram.

Like cancel culture kind of ended. Like people are over that. So like go be you like find your people read that. What is it? A thousand true fan that it’s an old, old article. Like really all you need is a thousand people who, you know, are picking up what you’re putting down. You could probably find those people.

So be yourself. Yeah. 

Akua: Yes. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. And I think what you highlighted is just such a good point that I want to highlight of just that balance. Right. Because number one, I just want to say to you, like, you don’t have to, and I’ve said this before too, in other episodes, like people always initially associate, like I have to have something super heavy and negative that has happened in my life.

And it’s like, no, like you share so many relatable things that are, would be considered mundane. This is like, you just share your everyday life in your content. Like no matter what season that you’re going through. You’re like, Hey, this is where I’m at. And like, you don’t shy away from it. Like you just spill the real as an entrepreneurship.

And I, that’s why I read them. I love them. And I think I love that how you said, like, you have to just sometimes be ahead because it is a fine line that you have to walk with really just being yourself and stuff like that. Like if you’re sharing it and you know, like, Ooh, like emotionally, like this still hurts.

And stuff like that, maybe pull back and process it internally by yourself before you share. But I love how you said, like, I keep it in a safe space first of really sharing of like, whether in my mastermind or in my stories, like find those safe spaces in your business to see what that feels like for you, but then also too, for your audience.

And I think it’s just such a good way of like really honoring ourselves. I love that. And I love too, of just the fact that the number is getting higher with each generation of like, people just not really trusting and believing brands. And I think, especially to your point with AI influencers, like now more than ever, people want the unfiltered, the raw.

And I think that was really highlighted. Do you think that, especially after 2020, that was highlighted even more? 

Ashlyn: Yeah. Yeah. And I think like the way, like to your point, Akua, about story to being like mundane. I think the more like 2020 and everything just pushed us into this. We want the reality show version of your life.

Like we want to know, I think people worry, sometimes story people think like, Oh, it has to be this heavy. Like my testimony, my like, you know, like get, tell me like how you’re chugging a Celsius a day because you’re, you’re trying to stay awake. And work while your kids are asleep. And then your husband just told you Celsius has some ingredient that you don’t need to, you know, be drinking.

How does that relate to like, did you know, you know, I don’t like correlate. I, if I can connect like a simple anecdote from my life, take a segue and connect it to content like SSP. I always think about story segue pitch, like how you can use that with the most mundane things. I think people freak out when they hear like incorporate story.

Tell us about when you found a gray hair. Like tell us about just a story can be an anecdote. It can be a sentence. That’s that can be a story, but people are looking for exactly what you said, that relatable moment that, oh my gosh, you too, that moment in your writing, it just, it goes so far while everybody’s out there thinking brands lie.

Akua: Yeah, absolutely. And I think to your point of this, it just really goes back to really knowing your values. I can, like you said, like just being bold and being you, it just, Just stepping into that, but a thing that I’m really curious about though is what you just I think we have to be open number one I say it’s all the time just really being open to you have to train your mind to think that way.

Yeah, honestly. Yes, because You really, really do. And I want to know for you, how did you train your mind? Oh, that’s good. Like, how did you train yourself to where now it’s like, it’s rolling. Like, where you’re creating that copy. 

Ashlyn: I’ll tell you exactly what it is. I think I like internalized the phrase, good writers are just good noticers of life.

Like, if you can just understand that, like, just notice life. All around you. Anything that happens in the day. Like if you, I think like maybe a more practical step, make yourself at the end of every day, write down one thing that happened to you that day. Like just make, and I think you don’t even have to ever use that in your writing, but it just trains you to be like, write down like a gratitude journal, write down three things every day that you’re thankful for.

Like that’ll make you kind of write some stories if that’s a better prompt for you. But if you can just make yourself force yourself to pause and think Cody C and chairs. Said something like, like the best ideas don’t come from zoom meetings. I was like, that is true. Like you, when you’re, when you practice solitude and you should get quiet, even for five minutes, you, I have more ideas in those quiet moments than I do in like the whole day.

If I’m talking or just going at full force. So yeah, I think that’s how I trained myself. 

Akua: Yeah, I love that. And I think that’s really, like, simple. Because I do the same thing, even just with storytelling. I’m like, people are like, how do you do it? I’m like, I just, I journal. I journal. Or I go for a walk. Like, that’s where my best ideas come from.

I stick in my AirPods, put in a podcast. And all of a sudden I’m like, oh my gosh. And I don’t, like, listen to, uh, business. I will literally just be listening to like, something that brings me joy, something that makes me laugh. And all of a sudden I’ll just have like some of my best ideas that I’ll highlight.

And again, I think you just need to bring people. I think that’s just what people want. People want to know realistically like what’s happening in your business. And so for you even as everyone that you’ve walked you, how have you maintained your, Your mental health. I think that’s like a really big thing as business owners.

Um, I’ll be quite honest even too with myself right now. I’m struggling a little bit. You know what I mean? Just sometimes those waves of loneliness, it just hits. And when you are in it, you just, you don’t, it just comes crashing. It comes crashing on you. And I, I’m trying to work really hard on preventing, you know, those heavy waves hitting and before it hits.

But I think for how have you, you know, you’ve been in the game for, you know, like you said, since like 2016 you’ve been a game for a good minute. How have you been maintaining your mental health through all of life? Just in general, good seasons, hard seasons in between seasons. 

Ashlyn: Okay. Okay. That’s so good.

And I, yeah, I love how raw this is. Um, I like, that’s the million dollar question. I think I’m always looking for how to Ashland proof my business because I know me, I have my number. I’ve seen me at like. Rock bottom. So as I’ve been like gone through and like had kids gone through pregnancies, ups and downs, hormonally of all that that is.

And then like what that does to your business to walk away from it for a while, I think that one of the big things, like I’m a firm believer in coaching, firm believer. Like I will pay for a coach. I’ve done it every year, but when I met the first, when I had my first kid, he’s five now, I didn’t because I was like, well, let me see if I even want to do this with a kid.

And then verdict. Yes, I do. So I like went back and got coaching, but just constantly having somebody I can be like, can you tell me I’m being an idiot? Like, can you tell me that This is a completely asinine thoughts that I’m having right now because the game of entrepreneurship is what’s between your ears and like, is your mindset that determines everything about your business.

So yeah, I have to work really hard at it. I have to protect it at all costs. I mean, like practical things, I, Like I, I’m a nut about my time and nut and absolute crazy person about my time. Because I know like, if I don’t get that time to think or to write, I risk building a business that I hate. I’ve, and I’ve, I’ve had moments.

I would say probably like every two years I have a moment where I’m like, do I like this? Like, what is, what is this? What are my offers? And I think it’s hard to, if you develop a business and you’re, it’s easy to maybe have those come to Jesus moments if your business isn’t doing well. But if your business is doing well, it’s harder because then you’re like, why?

I have no reason to complain. I have no reason to doubt. Like it’s. It’s spinning, but like if you hate it, if it’s drudgery and if you’re like crumbling on the inside, you’re not going to be able to sustain it. So I think not being afraid to sit down and kind of ask yourself regularly, like, do I like this?

Is this working? Can I sustain this? Can I scale it and not lose my mind 

Akua: and not lose my mind? Yeah, but I I you said earlier too of like there’s times that you’ve had to walk away Oh, yeah from your business and let’s talk about that because I feel like that’s just not talked about enough It’s just like there’s so many multitude like there’s so many shifts that happen to that where you even literally have to walk away Even if things are going good.

Yeah, so like what has that been like for you of like? You And I think it’s just a reminder of like, it’s okay to walk away from your business, either permanently and start something new, or maybe even just for a season. What, what does that look, what does that look like for you? 

Ashlyn: First of all, I think it comes with the, You, you do have to go at business in the good seasons as can this run without me, build it to sell, even if you never want to sell, you have to, because then you will not afford yourself the opportunity for your like WTF moment.

Do I even like this? So I think like the benefit I have been able to walk away multiple times, whether for maternity leave, sabbatical. Um, I’ll talk about a moment in just a minute in February, but it’s because I had the systems in play where the business could sustain for a minute without me. So, cause I do understand, like, that’s kind of a luxury, but it came at a very hard cost and a lot of work and constantly it’s that, uh, atomic habits quote, where he talks about, you don’t rise to your goals, you fall to your systems, like having that mindset always.

So then the moments of walking away, even this, I had my third kid in, what was that? October? When were you born? October? The beginning, end of September. Come back from leave. I’m back for like a week. And my mom has two aneurysms and goes into the hospital. So she’s in the ICU. Praise God, we just moved back to my hometown.

So she’s literally six minutes down the street. I was in the hospital all the time. So like, yet again, I’m stepping away from my business. I’m needing it to run when I can’t. And that it was just like, it makes you look at death and everything and think like, do I like this? And I had another moment where I, I kind of looked at everything and thought, I don’t know if I love my business.

Like the outsides don’t match the insides. Like it’s, and I shouldn’t have to complain. I don’t think I can complain because it looks good, but that, um, a teammate called me out on it. She’s my oldest employee in the business. She was like, Ashlyn, you’re in a different phase of life now than you were when you started it.

So I think that too, realizing like, if you have a business that. Even two years old, like you may be at a different, you have different thoughts. You have different experiences. You’ve cut your chops a little more. You probably are a little bit feistier about your opinions because dang it, you’ve been doing it day in and day out for two, three, four, five, six more years than you had.

So giving yourself. Space to think through the implications on that for your business i think is paramount. 

Akua: Oh my gosh I love that so much really bringing it back to the systems and that you said like you have to you have to really build Your mindset to really build the business for your future self like what yeah, it’s because again life happens You have no clue.

What’s gonna happen tomorrow? You have no clue. What’s gonna happen a year from now, right? and again, I think it’s Constantly checking in with yourself to have those hard questions, even when things are going good. Cause I feel like that’s what matters more than when things are going to shit. I think, I think that matters totally way more.

And I think to your point of like, because when things are going hard, you don’t have the time, right? You’re just now. In a completely different you’re hung. You’re just in a different mode of essentially trying to survive. And so having those systems in place to really keep you afloat, make sure that your business is keeping, because you have other people relying on you as well.

Right. Clients, you have a team. And so really having those systems in place where you’re like. I am not 100 percent right now and I have to give my 100 percent towards something else that’s more, way more important to me. And I think that’s just such a really good reminder of like, we are more than our businesses.

And so for you building those systems, how, what did that start looking like to you? What do your systems look like now, number one? And when you first started, like how did, what systems are really key and important for you to running a sustainable business? 

Ashlyn: Okay. I love it. And completely. Absolutely. Non paid reference to Loving Honeybug, like we, we use, we’ve used it for years because it, it manages our entire agency, our entire, just like one half of my whole business.

So I am a nut about my batch days, like I, and I say it like, batch is a bad word for it. theme days, like having certain tasks that I do on certain days. Like I know I’m in a certain mindset on any day of the week. All I tell my, I’ve hopefully trained my team on this, but like I live and die by if I’m doing something for the third time, I write it down because even if it, and it will take more time to write it down, but like, if you’ve done something.

More than two times chances are you are gonna do it again. It’s hard to stop and write SOPs, but that’s the place It just bites you in the butt if you don’t honestly and it I Remember sometimes I’ve had employees that’ll say like well I stopped the clock because it like took me a little longer I No, I want the clock on the clock stays on because we need to figure out exactly how long that takes from even a cost of goods standpoint.

Like I can’t properly price our services. For example, if I don’t know that that client project doesn’t actually take, you know, 30 minutes worth of research. It takes three hours. We need to know that. So I think that’s another like big system. Whenever we develop any of our SOPs, we always have it broken out to the 0.

25 of an hour, so the 15 minute mark. So that research phase took 1. 25. That sending that email put to 0. 25, 15 minutes, like. Doing that for all of your client systems game changer. Because then you can figure out how many can actually be done in a month and make sure you’re charging appropriately. And all that pricing stuff that keeps a lot of people, I think, locked into maybe not good system because you just feel like you’re a slave to it.

Um, yeah. 

Akua: Oh my gosh, I love that. I was gonna say, let’s, let’s talk about pricing. I feel like we’re jumping everywhere, but I think, 

Ashlyn: I love pri I think the sales copywriter in me is like, yes. Heck yes. Pricing. Yes. I, because yeah, I 

Akua: didn’t, I, I didn’t think of that. I just remember. I feel like pricing is something that we should be visiting often in our business, but I think because the fact of how draining and frustrating it can be that we don’t.

And so then before we know it, our business has evolved. And then here we are again, like, Oh shoot, like I have to figure this out. 

Ashlyn: Client work because you’re like, I’m not getting paid enough. Like you, you come to despise the work when you don’t And you need to be so, we, for the first time ever, we’ve had an interior designer help out in one room.

She was like, Ashley, I just hate sending an invoice. And I was like, no, like please send me the invoice. I, cause I know, I know the value of my time. I know how much my hours cost. And I know that I can go spend an hour on something in my business and make more money than I’m paying you to do something that would take me.

10 times as long and I would be freaking bleeding money cause I don’t have the hookups that you do. I don’t know. I would be clicking on wayfair. com and like trying to figure out stuff that you already know. So understand, Oh, I have like ocean in a teacup thoughts over here. I’m pricing. So I just cut you off entirely.

No, 

Akua: no, but please like. That’s what I love though, I think again of like the fact that you even tracking, I think that’s been a good place to stay, like start, of tracking your time, of how long does it take you to do, yep, because I do that with my storytelling strategist, like my intensive, so I, they’re like, we meet for four weeks before we even have the intensive, so I started tracking of how long it takes me to do it, so then, yeah.

That’s how I ended up being like the intensive. Everything total is five weeks because I had a beta and then tested them of how long it took them and tested how long it took me. And then I felt more comfortable because yes, it’s true. If you don’t, if you feel undervalued and underpaid, you are going to hate your work.

So I think what tips do you have for business owners of how we can be checking in regularly with our pricing and how can we price our services in a way as our business evolves to where we still consistently feel excited and passionate about the work that we’re doing? 

Ashlyn: Love it. Okay. First, I just. Sheena Skidmore.

She’s the pricing queen. I think I first learned pricing from her back in 2017. So I’ve taken like what she does and here’s like my spin on it. But essentially like I think the principles come down to knowing your hour, like knowing how much your hour costs your business. So like your revenue divided by number of hours you want to work.

What is like, I can either like scroll Instagram and DM or I can like. Bang out an email, but like that, my hour is worth X amount of dollars. Put on a sticky note on your desk. So you’re always aware of that. I think understanding to them, especially as service providers, we feel weird about a markup, I think like product people, like you kind of know when you buy a shirt, it probably cost them half as much to make it.

Right. But when it comes to our services. Sometimes I think we like, we cost it at cost. That’s not, you can’t be profitable that way. You’re, you can’t. Uncle Sam freaking takes 30 per, you know, you’ve got to be able not to mention reinvest in your business. All the hours you put in marketing that didn’t even go into the cost of goods for the product.

So for my service providers out there thinking through, like you have hard costs, you probably have a client gift, you know, if there’s any, you’re, you know, type form software that every client uses and whatever. So you find your hard costs, but then understanding exactly like we were saying, if eight hours, Go into the project and you are going to pay a freelance, I don’t know, photographer, freelance floral designer, whatever, to do that thing.

What hours would that be? Look at the combo. How, so how much is, how much is the cost of it? And then the scary part, double it because you have to, I would at least double it. Some people would say, The cost should be 40%, which is even scarier, but like at least double that that’s kind of what you should be charging because you’re going to then get a little bit of a profit, which is good.

You have to be paid as the CEO. But yeah, like we said the chunk of change is going to the government and taxes and then you’ve got to reinvest back in your business and just keep the lights on all the other fees that didn’t go into the making of the thing itself. And I think a lot of that is what keeps one of the stats that like drives me nuts is how many.

Female owned small businesses don’t ever hit six figures, which if you don’t want to fine, great. I love it. I’m a big fan of knowing your number, hitting it and resting. But if you need to be able to break that, cause you need to be able to hit, you know, making 100, 000 kind of does boil down to like a decent salary, 40, 50, 60 K, which is like a good salary.

And it just drives me nuts that a lot of people don’t hit that and they want to. And I. Not on my watch. And I think a lot of that gets broken down with pricing or people then I’ll have one more thing to say. People didn’t see that sticker number on what they should be charging. And they think I can absolutely not charge that.

I’ll just undercut and I’ll win on pricing. And then you hate your job and you’re exhausted. I hate your job. Yep. Figure out that big scary number and then let’s market. And that’s where sales copy comes in. Let’s sell to sell that. Like, you can’t argue that price point. People are still buying things.

People do still see value in paying. But you have to make sure on the back end you don’t. 

Akua: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s, again, some key points. Number one, tracking your time, right? Like, and then also, too, looking at the things that you have to keep the light on. The things that every single month that cost to be able to run your business, right?

And then it’s like, if you need to pull in other people to the project, look at that. Look at those numbers. Double it. I think, and to your point for Amanakua, that is a product based business for me and my mom that we have. And we like to be able in order to make the 50 percent profit, we had to double it.

And so for me, it’s easier for me to process on Amanakua. I don’t feel guilty process, uh, literally pricing for Amanakua because the formulas in there and the systems in there with all of our packaging, uh, supplies, how long it takes us, like all of that. So then I put it in and I’m like, Oh yeah, that’s the price.

But when I do my service based business, I’m like, 

Ashlyn: I know, we break down when we think about it for services. 

Akua: Well, yeah, we break down. So I love that you highlighted the comparison between the two because it’s like, yeah, then you have to really look at of like, because the service requires you, it requires your time.

So really again, creating those systems in place of like, how are you going to be able to track your time when you are building out those services? Okay. Like what are other key pieces that I need to delegate? or automate in my business. And how much does that cost? You know what I mean? I think again, it just goes to the fact of data.

Data tells the story of how you need to lean into your business. But data also tells the story of how you’re able to get clients. And so let’s talk about sales copy as well. Like let’s transition into that of like, when you really do feel confident in your pricing, it makes it a lot easier to be able to sell your products and share the value.

Of what it is that you offer. And so you touched on that a little bit, but let’s talk about that. Like, Oh, you’re like, all right, cool. Now I’m tracking all these things. I feel a lot, really confident about my pricing. How do I now feel confident in my copy to sell these products? And so how do I weave in some of this data to do some data storytelling?

How do I weave in some of like these relatable factors that get people excited, um, and address these pain points? I just gave you a crap ton of questions within that. So I was 

Ashlyn: just thinking, I was like, I think you just know my love language. Like we speak the same. This is so good. I love it. Yes. So I think in the whole, when you’re saying how we’ve established like this whole, it’s weird to do on the service provider side, I think it’s because there’s something to it where you’re like, but it’s easy for me, it’s.

But like I’m good at this. I shouldn’t upcharge. And so once you get through that and like you said, you have this confidence with your pricing and you’re excited about it and you know, it’s a damn good offer and you’re excited to get it out in the hands of people. Then I think the selling of it is fun because You have that, but then you can lawyer up.

Well, like you can argue like an attorney for why someone should pay for it. You said data, like one of the best things I love to do is I guess you would call it data driven storytelling where you’re, you’re arguing. We all know the emotional side of your brain purchases first, you know, you under, you already decide if you want to buy something or not.

And then your brain is going, well, is that a good idea? Like, is that smart? Do we already have that? Have we already gotten that solved in life? It’s kind of talking you out of it. So I think that’s where data can come in and argue either. And I think a data point looks like a testimonial. It looks like a statistic.

It looks like a fact. It looks like information from somewhere else on the internet as a supporting factor in it. Like, if you think about the evidence, like any, you Any lawyer show you watch and you watch them get up there and they’ve got all the, they’re presenting the evidence cause they’re arguing why something is to be.

So doing that in your creative small business as well. It’s not just, you know, wedding photography, but arguing for like, why is that even important in their home? Why is that going to matter in 10 years in 30 years in 50 years? Yeah, that’s. I asked the stuff I love and the, the word choice for it. I’ll say one thing too, is it comes in a, there’s an order to the message.

So I think some people think about sales copy. I need to be creative. I need to be storytelling. I need to use my thesaurus, all that kind of stuff. Yes. But it’s also just the organization of message in coming in and saying the right things in the right order is a lot to do with copywriting. And that’s why I talk about frameworks all the time.

I talk about different formulas because it really. The words matter. Absolutely. But the words are really this juxtaposition of like what you want to say, your voice, your story. We kind of talked about that. The dog whistles in your copy that help people understand, ah, that is for me, like that. I literally Googled that yesterday, that combo in a framework.

Is good sales copy and it’s, I hope it, it intimidates people less because it’s not about this like Hemingway in a cafe in Paris moment as much as it’s being a good assembler of pieces. You already have, you already have them. It’s just the organization of them. 

Akua: Yeah. And I think too, that’s such a good, uh, cause obviously I’ve taken your course and this was a huge game changer for me because I think, especially in regards to copy, um, a lot of people really struggled to find their voice and how they show up and you had it in your course to go back and look at past content.

Yes. Your social media. Listen to old interviews. Yes. Listen to, just, and I did. And I was like, oh, I say these things a lot that I really like. And like, stuff like that to where I started to become more confident in the language. I love it. And then you also had, um, as well, just interviewing your target audience.

So that you’re down to using the same language that they’re using. Um, so really going back to looking at past clients and stuff like that. And that’s what it really helped with me. Like, like really putting in that framework with copy. And so I think like you literally provided such really good, um, places of where to start with that.

If like, if you are a business owner, you’re like, okay, like I need to create these sales copy again, it’s the order. And so what does that framework, some of the, like these quick tips of like, what does this framework can look like? 

Ashlyn: Okay. My favorite go to one that I use all of the time Like whenever I’m stuck or I’m just like, I got to whip this email out.

What did I say? P A R I S. So problem or pining for a is for agitation or amplify or remind them what they want. I interesting data point. We just talked about that. Sell their brains, sell their rational thinking, and then introduce the solution. So those are two frameworks I use all the time. Uh, or sorry, that’s one.

The other one I was going to say is I mentioned it earlier, but story segue pitch. That’s like my go to email. Like I will think of the. The weirdest thing that happened in the past 24 hours. Take that, because it’s interesting. Drop them in the middle of the rising action with that. Like don’t, sometimes it can be like people are whining up, whining up, whining up.

Don’t wind up the story that much. Just drop, just, I’ll figure it out. Just drop me in. I’ll work myself into it. Segway, you could Google, you could ask chat GPT. Give me 10 segways. Anytime you listen to like a good TED talk, or a good, I don’t know, sermon, there’s like plenty of people that use a good, it’s kind of like your, like, that’s a segue.

We’re just, it’s just that connector piece. And then the pitch, what you want them to do. I think there’s somewhere on my, um, Instagram, I did that formula. If that interests anybody, you can go to my Instagram formula. It’s like, it looks like a chat GPT like picture, um, cause that you can throw that in, throw a story with that formula into chat GPT and it can spit you out a newsletter.

Like that framework can work so well and so easy. And I hope that just, again, helps submit with people. You don’t have to. It really is just the organization of the message that in hell and letting people, the human, the thing that you can do that a chat GPT can’t do is putting that story on it. That to circle us back to where we started.

It’s those like little moments in your life that I want to hear because I think all these brands are lying. So like, tell me the real life, like, tell me what’s really going on. 

Akua: Oh my gosh, I love that so much, and I think, again, it just speaks to the fact that you are your superpower, you are your gift. Yes.

And I love what you said earlier, too, like, I think we always have this misconception with storytelling that we always have to be like, we always have to start at the beginning, and it’s like, you really don’t. No. Just bring me to the action. Bring me. Hook me in, please. Yes. I can figure, like, I will be able to piece the dots together, like, Right.

Like we, I think we have to give our audience more of the benefit of the doubt. Right. We always get, have this anxiety of like, well, they may not understand it. Cause I’m guilty of that. I’m like, well, they may not understand it and this and that. And it’s like, no, just experiment with it. Drop them in the middle.

Okay. And then help start connecting those dots. And like, again, I think that’s just so, so key. And I love that framework. I think, again, it just makes it so much more simpler when creating that content. And if you’re like, okay. Um, with that framework. Yeah. Stick it into chat, GPT, after what you’ve created and ask, like, how do I improve this grammatically?

Or, you know, tone or whatever. Like there’s so many ways around where you can feel more confident as a copywriter. And so I feel like we’ve talked about so many things. 

Ashlyn: To be quite honest, I did not know we were going to be able to talk about all that. 

Akua: I know. I didn’t either. I just was like, well, we’re just going here and here.

And like, you know, Oh my gosh, so many things. I’m here for it. I’m proud of it. Oh my gosh. All the things, but I think then this has been so helpful in just so many different ways. I think again, like just even wrapping everything that we talked about of number one, just how do you honor yourself as a business owner?

You know, and no matter what you’re going through in a season of life, like honoring that season and also to what systems can you have, like really again, like Shea Cochran said this in one of our previous episodes, and I’m going to keep repeating it, build the business that you want to have tomorrow. So really thinking about what systems do you want in place to make sure that your business is here tomorrow, whatever that looks like for you really taking that time.

And then even two with pricing, right? If you have to take one tip today, just start tracking your hours, right? Again, like, One thing that you can walk away with today, with all the things that we can talk about of like, really take the look of like asking yourself those hard questions on a regular basis, even when your business is going well, of just consistently checking in with your pricing, how you’re doing, do you enjoy the work?

Like so many different things that we have talked about. And even too, just like with sales, right? Like, how can you bring people into the journey with you and, uh, walk them alongside with you and, and don’t be afraid to just Be unabashably, unabashably, unabashably, I don’t even know the word. 

Ashlyn: Unabashably.

Don’t be afraid of me. Listen, I always tell people I’m actually like the worst speller I know. And so I’m, I’m very, like copywriting and copy editing are two different things. So yeah. 

Akua: So yes, but I love that so much. And so Ashlyn, a question I want to ask for you is like, what’s next for you in this season?

Like, you know, I know you, you said you have So many, you know, you’re getting used to like your kiddos going to grade school, all those things. So like, what’s next for you as a business owner as you are navigating these, these new seasons of life? Okay. 

Ashlyn: This is like the real life stuff. I told my husband this morning in our bathroom, I was not expecting to like, it’s weird being like such a worker bee and then having kids and being like, well, I didn’t see that feeling coming, but like seeing them out for the summer and hearing them and I’m like, yeah.

I love my job, but like, I don’t, I don’t, I want to sit with them in the backyard with the sprinkler on. So I think what’s next is trying to figure out like, get out of always a bridesmaid mode. We have ever greened and like helped build so many of our clients is like evergreen offers. Guess who has not.

So I think like figuring that out is something I really want to do. And I think too, I get asked a lot about, you know, evergreen or live launch. Like we are an on demand world, man. Like people love to be able to. YouTube I learned is streaming more than Disney plus and Netflix. Like people like to be able to watch things or learn things on their time.

And so I’m a such a believer in a live launch and I love it. And I will continue to try to do three a year. But that is one thing I want to play around with is like, how can we serve people in. This on demand world and still be able to, you know, yeah. So I think that’s what I’m trying to like sift through and have some white space in my calendar to think, okay, what would that look like?

Cause I want to sit and watch my kids in the sprinkler and the water table in the backyard. 

Akua: Yes. I love that. And I think, again, it just goes to the fact of how with business owners, we have to consistently be innovative because times change consistently and you have to move along with the time. So really creating that space, no matter what that looks like, but being intentional about creating that space.

It’s a great space to really explore about things that you want to offer in your business and testing those out. So, uh, absolutely love that. And so, this conversation has been so fun. And a question that I love to, to end with is, What do you think is the biggest differentiator between the businesses that succeed and the ones that fail?

Ashlyn: Oh my gosh, let me think for a minute. Uh, actually no, I can already tell you. Focus. I think focus. Being able to say no and like firmly say no that whole, if it’s not a hell, yes, it’s a no, like, dang it. If everything is not vying for our attention, I just learned over and over. It’s yeah. It’s your ability to crack down and like say no to that, which just, it matters, but maybe not in the moment as dang hard.

And so I think that’s the difference. And yeah, that’s the difference. 

Akua: Yeah, I think that’s so important is focus because again, like when we’re on social media and you see people, especially people in the same industry, right. And they’re doing, it’s really, they’re doing something and like, and you know, they’re having this success and you’re like, Oh shoot.

Right. You instantly in your mind, I’m like, well, should I do that? Like, should I, you know what you think? Like, well, I’ve worked for them. Maybe I should shift my focus here and this and that. And I think again, it’s just really number one, thinking about the things that bring you joy as a business owner, what are your values?

And again, like that just really helps keep you anchored and grounded on what it is that you’re focused on. And like helping you stay in your lane. 

Ashlyn: Yeah. If you look at that, like anyway, you could like Google like Michael Phelps, look over your shoulder. Google that. Cause there’s some analogy, like he was in the lead and he looked over his shoulder and he lost the lead.

And it’s like the minute. You, even if you, you know, you see all these people doing things, but like, I, I struggle with that sometimes. Cause I’m like, she’s doing that. She’s doing that. She’s doing that. I’m like, well, I’ve got three kids and I want to protect the kingdom at home more than anything else. So like, I can’t even look over my shoulder and be like that, you know, what that writer is doing looks incredible.

Like my, I’m, I’m extremely focused on what I’m building. And, um, yeah, it includes. That includes your life, I guess, it’s not just your business, it includes the life you’re building as well. 

Akua: Yes. Oh, love that so much. Thank you so much, Ashlyn. I have loved this whole conversation. We’ve talked about all the things, but it was all so, so dang good.

Love this so much. So for people who want to connect with you, where can they find you? How can we support you? 

Ashlyn: All right. Ashlynwrites. com is my website and where you can find the copy bar. templates and everything. And then I’m usually, I’m better about Instagram these days. I had to get out of like the birthing era of my life.

So I’m better on at Ashlyn S. Carter on Instagram. 

Akua: Yes. Also sign up for her newsletter. It’s amazing. Love it. I will say that I’m on the list. So anyways, thank you so much, Ashlyn. And for everybody listening, thank you so much for being here and until next time. That ends our episode of the Independent Business Podcast.

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